Star Wars Needs To Be Held Accountable... | WFTN #143

We finally got an episode of us giving out our craziest takes locked and loaded for you today. From box office, to star wars, to the MCU. We bully all franchises and we scream at eachother for almost an hour it feels like... Let us know what you think of our takes and give us some discourse in the comments below that we can talk about next week live!!

Time Codes
0:00 Intro/Comments
10:10 Chill Episode Today
12:30 Aidens Early Spidernoir Thoughts
23:35 The Bear Final Season Trailer Reaction
28:45 Batman Is A B Tier Character
40:25 Spiderman BND Will Be The Second Highest Grossing 2026 Movie
1:11:50 Marvel Should Have Never Made TV Shows
1:21:10 Star Wars Could've Been Bigger Than The MCU
1:42:30 Steve Rogers Is Overated
2:02:10 Star Wars Is A Mid Franchise
2:24:15 Outro

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Transcript

SPEAKER_08 0:00

Fucking voice cracks, it's the complete opposite. Welcome back, everybody, to the Words from the Nerds podcast. We are back once again for another weekly episode, bringing you all of the fun nerdy media and news, TV shows, movies, whatever is coming out that we are talking about. As always, if you leave a comment down below on the YouTube video, we will read it on next week's episode. Next week it'll be Mr. Aiden who will be hosting. So if you have anything to say specifically to him, leave it down below. For last week's episode, we have four comments to go over. First one from Memish says, hashtag best podcast ever. Hashtag I was asleep. Memish wanted to be on to talk about backrooms, but your brother in the UK is not in the right time zone for that. So he had already dozed off, unfortunately. But thank you, Mimish, as always. We will have you on soon. Uh, there's some more horror stuff coming out later this year that I know he's more of a horror guy than any of us, so I feel like we gotta we gotta get him on here for that. And then he also says you guys need to watch from four seasons in, and yeah, I forgot you guys have never ever talked about it. Uh he must be watching here.

SPEAKER_02 1:16

I don't want you to talk shit on euphoria and then tell me to watch some dumbass shit on from oh wow, wow.

SPEAKER_06 1:24

No, my sister's a big yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:28

Then by damn curly, damn. Let my boy live. So I have two.

SPEAKER_02 1:39

Like you're you're not you're not going anywhere with me right now, pal.

SPEAKER_06 1:43

I have heard that it's a little corny. I'm not I'm not sure. I don't know. I've heard mixed things. I've heard great, and I've heard not good.

SPEAKER_08 1:51

I I've heard people really like it, but I don't know anything else about it. I don't like is the genre comparable to like a euphoria. I don't think so. I was just chatting shit. Okay, chatting shit, my just chatting shit. Chatting up then we got a couple comments from the euphoria ending was actually really good, by the way. Okay, maybe that corn was actually really good.

SPEAKER_02 2:14

Get up out of here, it's actually really good. Zende is dead.

SPEAKER_08 2:18

We got spoilers. I was I was like gonna catch up and watch it.

SPEAKER_04 2:23

No, you weren't.

SPEAKER_08 2:25

What uh is there any other show that you can think of off the cuff right now that I need to catch up on and watch? Any show?

SPEAKER_11 2:32

Game of Thrones.

SPEAKER_08 2:34

Okay, I teed you up for two catch up on good options, and you didn't say either. Attack on Titan.

SPEAKER_02 2:40

But Euphoria isn't a catch up on either, because that was the series finale.

SPEAKER_08 2:43

So, like more so just like something that I just need to do.

SPEAKER_02 2:47

Wait, you teed me up for what? I'm sorry, what was what did you try to team me up? Attack on Titan?

SPEAKER_08 2:50

It could have been Attack on Titan, X-Men 97.

SPEAKER_02 2:53

Oh, I mean, that's you're yeah, you like there's some buddy. You actually have like three three weeks for X-Men 97, so like you should just know that they should just be baked in.

SPEAKER_08 3:03

Let's go, dude. Uh okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Uh, we got a couple of comments from Brandon. The first one, we talked last week a little bit about the PlayStation state of play with the new Wolverine game. Brandon says, Charlie, I believe with Wolverine you can pay an additional ten dollars after you install the game to get the digital deluxe upgrade to unlock all that stuff for your physical edition. I believe Spider-Man 2 let you do the same thing because I think I paid the $10 to unlock whatever the suits were, even though I bought it physically.

SPEAKER_10 3:37

Whoa, hold on, Wolverine.

SPEAKER_09 3:40

Uh digital deluxe upgrade.

SPEAKER_06 3:45

Damn, Brandon just mogged Charlie live on this show. That's insane.

SPEAKER_02 3:51

I mean, oh yes, you can, bro. That's hot. That is actually.

SPEAKER_08 3:55

At one point you said you were gonna buy the digital and the physical.

SPEAKER_02 3:58

I did. I and I was I fully meant it too. I fully meant it.

SPEAKER_08 4:02

Well, there you go.

SPEAKER_02 4:03

That's that's actually so fire.

SPEAKER_08 4:05

And then lastly, from Brandon says, on the topic of backrooms, Kane's backroom floor is different than what the internet has for the lore. I assume he means Kane's backroom lore is different when what the internet has for the lore. I think all the questions Charlie wants answers to are in the YouTube series, since this movie is canon to that series.

SPEAKER_09 4:30

I just wanted good characters.

SPEAKER_06 4:34

You know, I I I just I just re-watch, I just got back from watching it a second time with my co-workers. Not none of the three of them really liked the movie. Um really, which I thought was interesting. Yeah, I mean, that's like as general audience as it gets is them three. They were really excited going into it, leaving. They were just like, that's fine. I feel like I wanted more. Like, I just I just you know, it was it was good, I guess. Um, yeah, I don't know. I don't really know how I feel about the characters' take. Like, I I I do feel like there's not an arc. I there's not enough room for an arc, it feels like sometimes. Like, I do think if the movie was longer, I still stand by like that would have benefited the characters a lot, but it doesn't really bother me. Like, I don't I don't know, I don't really understand that take.

SPEAKER_02 5:23

Like that they can I get that they can be a little bit bland, but uh I mean I think what Ben said in after his uh second watch was very poignant, uh sure, but I just don't think it was portrayed well at all in the actual film. Um I yeah, and what I'm referring to is Clark's character uh searching for redemption, uh searching for like what is wrong with him. I don't think that that was a theme for him. What's like because if anything, it's just the movie's about him giving up and then like at the very end when he locks down Mary and he's trying to like really get down to the root of it. Like there's the beginning part where they have that same conversation almost in in her office, and then there's the end part in the backrooms, uh and I just don't there's nothing else that speaks to him searching for redemption throughout that movie. But do you do like wallowing in his self-pity?

SPEAKER_06 6:20

Do you think if the movie were longer uh to to allot time to focus on that for the character of Clark? Like I don't know, that could have helped it.

SPEAKER_02 6:32

I I I do, but I also think that the movie had enough time as it is to to do at least more than they did with it. I think that um like because even just as as basic as just show like I guess there was the shot of I think he drives up to his house that I assume it was his house that his wife kicked him out of. Um but like that that doesn't really show that just shows that he he's longing for that back, like he just wants that life back, I guess. But that's that doesn't really speak to his idea of what's wrong with me. I need to figure out what's wrong with me. And also I don't see how exploring the backrooms inherently is a solution to that until he finds out about the pirate, the the pirate entity being him. Then I can see how he might connect those dots. But he didn't know that the entity looked like him at all up to that point. So like I think him just it's like the the movie takes a break from his plot line to explore the back rooms and then it comes back to it afterwards. And so I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_08 7:41

I agree with what you're saying. I think the movie had time for it and instead relied on the viewer to like look at the themes and the setting and connect the dots themselves rather than like doing a better job of actually portraying it, which is like why like what I said, like you would you agree with my explanation of it, but the movie didn't show it as much as it needed to. Yeah, so uh yeah, I re-watched it last Thursday, so a few days ago, and the three people that I went with, they liked it more than I did. Oh, really? Wow, yeah, kind of opposite end of the spectrum. They really enjoyed it, so yeah. And I did like it a little bit better second time around, knowing what to expect. So yeah, but I have not, I mean, I knew about the backrooms and like in general what the what the lore was, but I haven't like done a deep dive or watched a bunch of the videos. I was watching it with somebody who had seen and like looked into the whole web series before watching it and specifically watched Kane's web series. So, like I know some people went into this movie and are talking about some of the lore being like different than what they think the lore should be, just like the entities and still lifes and whatever. Like, it's not quite what some people would want from a backrooms movie, but for somebody who actually like was interested in his specific lore, they really liked it based on that.

SPEAKER_06 9:11

So well, and I also think I was talking to Brandon, and I won't be too long on this. Uh, I was talking to Brandon, and I I feel like the internet and how much lore it is with people's different interpretations of the backrooms, kind of hurt this movie as well, kind of hurt the word of mouth for this movie as well, because I've seen so many um takes of this isn't what I expected, they should have done this, they should have explored this aspect of it. And when you really boil it down, as somebody who just watched Kane stuff, knows the liminal spaces, nostalgic horror that goes on on TikTok, but watched Kane stuff and then watched the movie. I didn't have that sentiment of, oh, it should have been this, it should have been this. But I could see all these different interpretations and all these different lore videos um kind of spoiling some people's thoughts on the movie after they got out. So I just think it's so big that you run into that problem, which is crazy.

SPEAKER_08 10:08

Yeah, yeah. Uh yeah, for today's episode, we are going to be going over some hot takes from each of us. We are not going to touch on any of the drafts that we have going on. We're not going to talk about Rotten Tomatoes or the box office draft. We'll have updates for that probably next week because we have disclosure day, which not only has box office implications. We could, yeah. Um, we have disclosure day, which is not only in the Rotten Tomatoes draft for me, but also is in the box office draft for Brandon. I feel I was I'm sorry, I don't mean to cut you off.

SPEAKER_06 10:45

I just I feel like we could talk about the Masters of the Universe bomb next week, though, and all that stuff comes out. Um oh, holy shit, Ben. I think I think something's oh uh all right, folks, we have a breaking news segment here. Uh I am going to toss it to Ben here in the studio. Ben, I hear you have word of what's going on right now.

SPEAKER_07 11:15

Thanks, Aiden. We're still waiting on further details, but on the back alley streets of Shikari, Grogu is confirmed to be dead, shot dead, and beheaded. Ludwig Gorenson was performing a concert. We're not sure the exact details. We'll let you know as soon as we have a further update. Back to you.

SPEAKER_06 11:39

Thank you, Ben. Um, all right, folks, back to our regularly scheduled program. Um holy, yeah. Let's talk about that. That that bomb right there. So there you go, Charlie. We planned something else for you this week.

SPEAKER_08 11:55

I I told Aiden I was just like, I have another set thing. Should we do something with Charlie? Because like I I was really mad, and then you know, holy, he just started bleeding.

SPEAKER_06 12:10

I don't dude. Uh Charlie just immediately started clapping and smiling like a giddy little boy. Holy. Oh man, that's funny. Uh well, since since we have like kind of a more chill episode, Ben, I don't know if you if you kind of had a strict agenda you wanted to follow, but um I'd like to talk about how I'm liking Spider-Noir right now.

SPEAKER_08 12:33

Yeah, definitely. We should do that. And I we should watch the bear trailer because I haven't seen it.

SPEAKER_06 12:38

Okay, cool. Yeah, yeah. So um, yeah, I started Spider-Noir and I am loving it so much right now. Um, I'm three episodes in. It's been it's been a lot of fun. Um, I was it was easy for me to buy into to how things were gonna kind of shake down. I think it's moving at a tremendous pace right now. Um, like we're three episodes in, and you know, Silvermane captured Ben Riley and Kat Hardy, and I'm like, man, this this freaking end of this episode is going all over the place. And then Ben Riley's like, check your pocket scrub, and it's like, oh, I have marked bills. He gets killed. I'm just like, dude, this is fire. I'm loving this. Um, so I'm watching the first three episodes in black and white uh to kind of get a feel for the show. And I'm going by, I saw somebody kind of mention this on TikTok, so I was like, this would be cool to follow. I'm watching the first two episodes in black and white to get a feel for the show, get get kind of get immersed in this universe. Um, I'm watching episodes four and five in color because apparently there's a lot of cool things they do with color in those episodes. Um, and uh apparently it's supposed to be pretty cool in in color. Uh, episode six will be back in black and white, which I have gotten spoiled that I think this is his origin story, or kind of touches more on the character of Ben Riley in episode six. And then episode seven and eight is left up to me. So I'm gonna kind of get a grasp through these first six episodes, what I'm liking, and then episode seven and eight, I'm gonna choose color or black and white for the last two. But um, I'm curious what y'all, because I didn't listen to y'all's episode um or y'all's y'all's segment, but uh, what did y'all watch it in? Did y'all end up doing the color and or what did we I was going to just go back and listen to our conversation last week, buddy? Yo, actually participate today.

SPEAKER_08 14:25

So yeah, I got you and I'll let you know. I was gonna go every other episode, uh, and I started watching episode one in color, but there was a moment within like the first like 20 or 30 minutes uh around the halfway mark of the episode that like it became very clear to me that it was specifically lit so that it could be color corrected to black and white. Not that the color looks bad, not at all, yeah, but it was just very clear like how intentional they were. So I switched to black and white, and then I basically stayed on black and white the rest of the time, other than a couple of specific moments within specific episodes, because like a character shows up and I'm like, I want to know how this character looks in color. How did they how did they fit the aesthetic? Because I feel like the black and white aesthetic of this time period and whatnot works really, really well, and so I didn't know how like the color would change my perception of that. So I I switched for specific things, but otherwise I watched the whole thing basically in black and white.

SPEAKER_02 15:31

Charlie, I'm a color man, I'm a colorful man, so I watched it in color.

SPEAKER_08 15:36

We know that.

SPEAKER_02 15:38

We've gotta say that twice.

SPEAKER_04 15:40

Shout out Kobe on top of you, right?

SPEAKER_02 15:47

Um yeah, I watched it in color, man. I watched every episode in color except for I think it was episode five that I watched in black and white just to try it. And uh I think that was the right decision. Um, just because I said this last week. Like the things they do with color in this show specifically is probably some of the best things we'll see any comic book project do with color in a long time, apart from like Superman, uh like James Gunn's universe and everything like that. Interesting. Like a lot of this stuff is very intentional, it's very uh they still keep that noir setting and and feeling uh very well with the color, and uh it also just makes New York very uh uh vibrant and nightly, uh even even in the nighttime scenes, like the you can see the neon glow of some of some signs in the back. Uh way off in the distance, the night sky also just has like this this color to it, this great tinge to it. It's great stuff, man. Um but that being said, I don't think black and white is terrible by any means. I just think that uh a lot of that is lost uh with it, and I think that that's unfortunate, and I think that this show deserves to be enjoyed to its full potential. Yeah. Honestly, coming from two IMAX glazers, it's crazy to me that you guys are so gung-ho on black and white.

SPEAKER_06 17:20

Well, I mean, we're just so spoiled, it's like I don't have to leech on to I don't have to leech on to like oh color, color.

SPEAKER_02 17:27

I can watch this in black and white and be like, Hey, you know, for the odd sea, by the way, not that it mattered because you guys are you guys are seeing it in 70 millimeters, so it really doesn't matter what I'm saying. But everybody seems to agree that Dolby's the way to see this movie if you're not if you're if it's regular IMAX versus Dolby, go to Dolby.

SPEAKER_08 17:44

Yeah, yeah. I would have told you that. I think I did tell you that. I think Ben did, yeah. I think he didn't.

SPEAKER_02 17:49

No, you didn't say that. You didn't you just said all no Ben, all you said was that I'm not gonna see a difference between 1.85 and 1.90.

SPEAKER_06 17:57

I remember I think I remember him saying I would have told me let's pull it up. But specifically a no, it's fine. We can do that shit later.

SPEAKER_08 18:04

A low reviewed, like mid-reviewed IMAX screen versus a high-end Dolby screen. Obviously, I'm gonna tell you to see it in Dolby.

SPEAKER_02 18:12

Oh, sure. The particular theaters I was talking about, sure. But I mean in general, people are saying an IMAX 1.90 aspect screen versus a 1.85 Dolby screen, they're saying like the Dolby one is the way to go. I think it just depends on the screen. Amen. All I'm saying. That's all I'm saying, bro. But again, not that it matters for you guys because you're seeing 70 millimeter, so it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_08 18:34

But yeah, yeah, yeah. Calling us IMAX Glazers is interesting because, like, if you had an IMAX, you'd probably be an IMAX glazer.

SPEAKER_02 18:43

You don't, you just don't have the choice. It's like I don't think so.

SPEAKER_08 18:45

You're just not a part of it.

SPEAKER_06 18:47

It's it's jealousy. It's jealousy. I don't think so. I'm liking Spider Noir. I think Spider Noir has been a lot of fun. It's amazing. Um, very easy to buy into this. Easily gonna be like second. I think right now it's like on pace for like second best uh superhero show this year. Uh behind Invince. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Better than Wonder Man and Daredevil. I forgot Wonder Man came out this year. Third. I will say over Daredevil right now. I think I'm enjoying this right now. Okay, more than because we we did talk about we haven't. I haven't been keeping up my keeping up with my show rankings this year.

SPEAKER_08 19:21

I've been keeping up with mine, I've been pretty bad with it. We'll have to go out of that because my top four right now are all comic book shows. Now I've only seen like seven seasons, but the top four are all comic book shows. The only outliers the boys right now, as like the superhero dud of the good grief.

SPEAKER_06 19:40

Well, and here's the thing here's why I say that with Noir, because I feel like this has so much freedom. You can do whatever like they've already thrown in Tombstone, Sandman, uh Molten Man, they've already thrown all these characters in in the first three episodes, and now Silvermane, excuse me, good grief. Um, and then everything that happened at the end of episode three. I'm like, dude, not only are you telling such a compelling story, this show is written so well. Like the dialogue and the back and forth that we get through all these characters is so awesome. Um, and Nicolas Cage is knocking it out of the freaking park. Oh my god. So, you know, combining all of that, Charlie, whoa whoa, get out of here. Get out of here, get out of here. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_08 20:29

He thought it was too Nick Cagey.

SPEAKER_06 20:32

He can shove that Nick Cagey opinion up his fucking ass, man. That shit is great.

SPEAKER_04 20:36

What are you talking about? Bro, no, dude, no, no, no, no. I think that gives me a big thing.

SPEAKER_02 20:40

He gets to call Aiden and the biggest fucking glazer on this podcast for anything and everything, bro. Anything Aiden wants in that moment in time is the best fucking he gets to call his shot now.

SPEAKER_06 20:52

He wants to be all willy-nilly with his takes. Come on, man. Yeah, cool. You called your shot with this show. It doesn't give you free reign to shit on Nick Gage's performance.

SPEAKER_08 21:03

We wrote you a letter, like, just calm down.

SPEAKER_06 21:06

Yeah, come pipe down, man. Please.

SPEAKER_02 21:09

Hold on, because you guys wrote me a letter, I gotta shut up and sit in the corner.

SPEAKER_06 21:13

Yeah, actually, please. Stupid. I think I think Nick Cage is his performance is great, but the dialogue, the characters, they have so much more freedom. Whereas a Daredevil, you're you're tied down to a lot. I can't see Daredevil interact with Spider-Man or pull like some friendly neighborhood Spider-Man. Why enjoy friendly neighborhood Spider-Man so much? I miss out on those interactions. Spectacular. So to get them, to get them all here. Uh I mean, yeah, but to get them all in this.

SPEAKER_10 21:42

You've never seen it. Shut up.

SPEAKER_06 21:44

Um, actually, I've watched the first couple seasons, all right, a long time ago. So there's only two seasons. Then maybe we've had this conversation. Then I think I watched like the first season. I watched something. Anyways, the freedom that this show has in the Creativity that it's been exploring. Um I I just see a difference in quality when it comes to that in terms of noir and and daredevil. So because of that, I I can see it being on pace to lap Daredevil, but I'm enjoying it. I'm liking it a lot. Um, I just I didn't want to go this long, but I wanted to get that out there because um I would have had way more to talk about by the time I finish it.

SPEAKER_02 22:24

So what the hell do they mean by authentic black and white? Because are they not just taking their colored shit and hitting the monochrome filter?

SPEAKER_06 22:34

I highly doubt it.

SPEAKER_08 22:36

It has to be way more intricate. As somebody who actually watched it in black and white, it's more than that.

SPEAKER_10 22:41

I watched an episode in black and white.

SPEAKER_06 22:43

Well, and as IMAX watchers, so we've seen media that can exceed just you know uh shitty movie theater screen. And I've seen the 70 millimeter enjoyers. Future 70 millimeter watch.

SPEAKER_02 22:55

Yeah, okay, yeah. Wait till I get to be on the Spider-Verse in 1.4 or 3. All right, shut up.

SPEAKER_08 23:00

You're not gonna be able to.

SPEAKER_02 23:02

Yeah, I will. Yeah, I will.

SPEAKER_08 23:04

It's a five-hour drive, buddy.

SPEAKER_02 23:05

Yeah, it's a five-hour drive. That's nothing.

SPEAKER_08 23:07

I I think I'm driving six hours for wait till it gets delayed another two years, and then you're not gonna get a 70 millimeter, you're gonna get a 35 millimeter, if you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_02 23:20

It doesn't beond is not gonna be in 70 millimeter, it's just 1.4. It's the aspect ratio.

SPEAKER_06 23:25

You know what I'm saying? Yo, Charlie, pipe down talking to my boy like that. Jeez, man.

SPEAKER_08 23:33

All right.

SPEAKER_04 23:34

Let's kick this baby off. Oh my gosh, I'm so excited for this.

SPEAKER_08 23:38

Charlie has seen this. Aiden and I have not seen this. Did this come out literally today?

SPEAKER_10 23:41

Yeah, it did. I watched it on my lunch.

SPEAKER_08 23:43

Oh man, it's so good. The Bear season five trailer reaction. Final season. You good?

SPEAKER_02 23:55

Just take a breath. Listen to the panel. Also, pause. I just want to say pay very much attention to the the the blocking the camera, just the quality of the camera. So I think there this I maybe I'm crazy. This looks like a major upgrade.

SPEAKER_06 24:11

Draft it.

SPEAKER_02 24:12

This looks like a major upgrade from yeah, I would, I would, I would a thousand percent draft.

SPEAKER_06 24:17

I would a thousand percent draft this. My season's already over. I would be drafted.

SPEAKER_02 24:20

What you're lying through your teeth.

SPEAKER_06 24:23

If I had one more spot, if I had one more spot, I would a hundred percent draft this. I'd just be bad. You're delusional.

SPEAKER_04 24:31

I drafted it last last year.

SPEAKER_02 24:34

I know, but that's what I'm saying. And you would draft it again after that. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_06 24:38

Dude, just to have it on my list, bro. Yes, a thousand percent. Can you respect this thing? Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 24:44

But anyway, just pay attention to the camera shots. These like, yeah, these look I like. Am I crazy? These look like an upgrade. I know you guys haven't seen it all yet, but just pay attention.

SPEAKER_01 24:55

Yes, our last day. We're out of time.

SPEAKER_04 24:59

I'm not giving up. We're gonna keep operating. Richard, I am selling the building. Oh no, make it ready.

SPEAKER_03 25:10

This bad restaurant is flooded.

SPEAKER_07 25:16

Deliveries cut us off. We're gonna run out of food. Everything's either gonna be okay. Nope.

SPEAKER_05 25:26

It's not okay.

SPEAKER_04 25:31

Or not.

SPEAKER_00 25:32

Only we are outgunned and we are outmanned. Can bring the rain. We got no money. But we have each other, and nothing left to lose. You ready? Every second counts, baby. Next horse fire. I spent so much time running from this place. Turned out to be the best spot for me.

SPEAKER_06 26:08

You did the is this a sunrise on the reaping?

SPEAKER_05 26:13

I don't think so.

SPEAKER_09 26:14

Each other's backs. Okay. Every night.

SPEAKER_05 26:16

I look at you all, and I love you so much.

SPEAKER_09 26:19

This is how we keep this place alive. This is the bear.

SPEAKER_02 26:31

The sound wasn't hidden as well as when you just watch it natively, of course, but like, oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_06 26:37

That was a really good trailer.

SPEAKER_08 26:38

I think last season's trailer was better, but that was a really good trailer. What do we think in how do they end this?

SPEAKER_05 26:46

Do we think that like I'm surprised that Carmi's it looks like Carmi's just back in the smooth things? Like it looks like Richie's fine.

SPEAKER_08 26:54

Yeah, yeah. Do we think they're going to go out of business and then like it's gonna end with like a nice last service kind of thing, and then they all disappear?

SPEAKER_06 27:05

That's what do we think? That's what it because because part of my thought process watching that trailer was uh could this end with just the restaurant fails and that's it? And that's just the side because they've talked about like countless restaurants fail, like what's been making this one stand out, and what's been making this one different from everyone, and if it just turns out like nothing, it just also failed. Like, that's a brutal ending, it's a fitting ending for this show because you know this show this show is is good with like ending on some like crazy cliffhangers and whatnot, but that is a very real possibility that it looks like that trailer is um trying to hint at. It's kind of funny, it was just straight up deliveries cut us off. We have no money. I'm selling the building, we're running out of food. It's like okay, right. Holy it's yeah, yeah. What are we doing? Jeez Louise. Um, yeah, I I feel like that's a very possible ending. It's just the restaurant going out of business.

SPEAKER_02 28:05

Yeah, I agree. I think uh but like I could also see a an ending where like they they persevere and uh Carmi gets to gets to live out the dream of of having owning a successful restaurant and not being so mentally crippled. Uh but truthfully either way, man. Either way. This is I'm here for it.

SPEAKER_08 28:33

It looks good, it looks stressful. Always does.

SPEAKER_06 28:38

Yeah, yeah. Uh yeah, that was really that was a really good trailer. I'm not like completely blown away by it, but it's uh it's a good trailer. Alright.

SPEAKER_08 28:47

Yes, the wheel. We're gonna get into takes the wheel.

SPEAKER_10 28:52

Uh you can make four.

SPEAKER_08 28:54

Yeah, this is a new new feature. You can add wheels, so we're gonna spin. Wow! We're gonna spin wheel number four to determine which wheel we actually spin.

unknown 29:04

What the fuck?

SPEAKER_08 29:08

Oh, there's no sound playing. That's a little tragic. Looks like wheel two is gonna be the winner.

SPEAKER_06 29:17

I didn't know uh it's oh yo, you're just I thought it was spinning.

SPEAKER_04 29:23

I was like, oh shit, I'm about to it's about to be me.

SPEAKER_08 29:26

You can spin all wheels at the same time, so I feel like at some point of this, man. You know what? Whatever, man. I mean, sure, man. I think he's going first.

SPEAKER_06 29:45

No, Charlie, Charlie's a fucking party pooper. Holy shit. Yo, bro, I literally said okay. I said it was okay. The conversation with Kobe just what's it what's going through your head, man?

SPEAKER_08 29:58

Aiden will go second, and I'll go third, and then we'll just go through again, Charlie, Aiden, myself. Dude, we're just having a good time. We're just kicking. I literally I didn't say anything.

SPEAKER_02 30:10

I didn't say anything.

SPEAKER_08 30:11

You said what was what what was the point? Sorry.

SPEAKER_07 30:20

Exact same, bro.

SPEAKER_06 30:22

Oh my god. He doesn't want Kobe living in the same apartment. Dude he hates that guy. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_10 30:37

Shout out, Kobe. Um uh hot take.

SPEAKER_06 30:41

The most well prepared three of us, by the way. Lay it on us, baby. You got the spotlight.

SPEAKER_10 30:47

Uh what can I what can I say? That's a hot take.

SPEAKER_08 30:52

Um the guy who never prepares for for drafts, by the way, just rips it from the heart.

SPEAKER_10 30:59

Yeah, and I'm beating you, so what's that say?

SPEAKER_02 31:02

Um Batman is a B tier character. Batman is a B tier character, brother. Can we give him like a uh with an A tier rogues gallery? S tier rogues gallery.

SPEAKER_08 31:24

With an S tier rogues gallery?

SPEAKER_02 31:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 31:30

Oh man.

SPEAKER_02 31:31

I don't I think I think he's carried by the Bat family.

SPEAKER_08 31:37

Whoa. Okay, we're we're we're getting we're getting a little deeper here with that. The bat family meaning who specifically.

SPEAKER_02 31:48

Uh any, I mean, almost any iteration. I'd maybe leave out Damien because I don't give a shit about Damien, but um be it Jason, uh Dick, uh, my personal favorite. Uh can't remember his name. Something it's something Drake. Isn't it something Drake, bro?

SPEAKER_08 32:14

Tim?

SPEAKER_02 32:15

Tim Drake, thank you. It's something Drake.

SPEAKER_08 32:17

My personal favorite, uh Nathan Drake.

SPEAKER_02 32:21

No, see, that that's where my head actually went. It was Nathan Drake. I'm like, that's not Robin. Um but yeah, my personal favorite, Tim Drake. I mean, yeah, all of Batgirl as well. Batwoman.

SPEAKER_06 32:33

I don't have an I don't really have an opinion on that. Like, I don't necessarily disagree because I've never been the biggest Batman guy. Like I love the Batman Glazer over here.

unknown 32:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 32:42

Oh, yeah, no, I love Robert Pattinson's Batman. Okay, but like, not enough to really care about having Batman shit pasted up on my walls, and like he's a great character, like going to Bat for him or going to Bat for any comic iteration of him. I'm never really cared about Batman a whole lot.

SPEAKER_02 32:57

So I think I think the flash mogs.

SPEAKER_08 33:01

You guys know that meme from Obsession that's like every Wednesday I wake up rock hard thinking about trivia. Currently, my my life is every day I wake up rock hard waiting on news from the Batman 2. That's where I'm currently at. So that's fair.

SPEAKER_06 33:20

I love the Batman movie. I I love I love Robert Pattinson's Batman, and I love his movies, and I think they're phenomenal. Like, I just I I I can't really like I don't know. I don't really have an opinion on like Batman's a B. I think, in my opinion, he is a B tier character. Uh like yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_08 33:37

I do I I agree about his rogues gallery though, because I like he might have the best rogues gallery, yeah. It's probably better than Spider-Man. Yeah, yeah. It probably because there, I mean, there's a lot of just like whatever. I mean, there's freaking condiment king and calendar man, like it's sure same with Spider-Man, Tarantula, uh right, right, right. But then obviously the Leaper is gets like he has the Leaper, he has some some great villains. So I I agree that his big wheel man or something.

SPEAKER_02 34:13

Big wheel. I don't think it's big wheel, man. It's just big wheel.

SPEAKER_08 34:16

I think he's carried more by his his rogues gallery than he is by the bat family.

SPEAKER_06 34:21

I I yeah, I don't know if I agree with like the bat, because I really don't give a fuck about any anybody in the bat family other than Batman.

SPEAKER_02 34:27

That's why they're making a a a a Nightwing and Jason Todd movie, and that's why they're making uh a Teen Titans movie, and that's why they're uh What's your point with that? That that like I the Bat Family is so popular, they're they not only lead other teams, but they're also getting their own fucking projects in movies. And in what world is that gonna be bigger than fucking the Batman part two? Like what what's your I'm not saying I'm not saying it's gonna be I'm not gonna I'm not saying it's gonna be bigger, but I'm just saying he's carried by I'm just saying that I'm saying that people care about them as much I guess I get too. Oh, yeah, yeah. As much as as they care about Batman.

SPEAKER_06 35:06

I don't know. That's I mean, fair. I'm not I don't I don't I'm not a part of a lot of not a good video game.

SPEAKER_02 35:11

There's an entire video game where you play as just the Bat family, you don't even play as Batman. It's not a good video game, but but that's the thing.

SPEAKER_06 35:17

When are like yeah, you're saying that like here's here's why the Bat Family is popular. It's like I I don't give a fuck about the Bat Family, I only care about Batman. Like, and I'm sure there are some people.

SPEAKER_02 35:31

You don't even really care about Batman. I feel like you don't even really care about Batman. You just said that you only care about the Batman movies.

SPEAKER_06 35:37

Well, that's fair. That and that's fair, but I don't care about the Bat Family even less than I don't care about Batman. So it's like, is he being like when I think of Batman? Sure, I think of his his Rogues gallery, or I think of the Batman himself or his parents or Alfred, whatever, something to do with Batman. I never think about the Bat family, I do not care about the Bat family. I that and that's just me. I know other people differ, but in and I don't know. I like, yeah, the Bat family's popular, but to say that Batman is led by them, or hey, look at all these movies because they're so popular, cool. Yeah, what are those movies gonna bring in? Are those movies gonna get conversation other than just people that are in our bubble and our circles? Like Batman mogs them when it comes to like box office or popularity. I mean, obviously.

SPEAKER_02 36:27

So I mean Batman's the top three in terms of popularity, absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 36:31

100%.

SPEAKER_02 36:32

So it's like I'm not disputing that. I think that there's a certain point where Batman's characterization hits a halt and that's fair, yeah. Is then carried out by someone in the Bat family pretending to be Batman, uh, like Dick, like Dick has done before. Or um, for example, just the stories written around the Bat family are arguably deeper than uh whatever is baseline for Batman. Because I mean Batman's been around long enough that you can write there's been multiple stories written around Batman and multiple different uh uh branches from his uh be his origins, I couldn't think of the word. But uh I think that something like I don't even I don't even I'm not even a champion for Jason Todd like that, but I think that Jason Todd, everything that's surrounding Jason Todd and everything that happened with him getting beaten to death and then tortured beaten to death and then tortured uh spoilers by Joker. Um depending on whatever uh because I don't even think that's always the case. I think sometimes he gets brought back to life with the uh I forget what it's called, but Ray Shaw Ghoul has it, the fucking the pool of water that brings you back to life. I don't fucking remember what it's called. Um I think sometimes he gets brought to back to life with that, yada yada yada. But um even like something like Dick, Dick being a uh someone who Batman viewed as like himself at one point because Dick's parents died, and so he takes him in as the first ever Robin, and then Dick outgrows Batman and thinks he's a piece of shit, thinks he's an asshole, so then he becomes his own hero. Like that's fucking that's fucking awesome. Like that's fucking sick. So I don't know.

SPEAKER_08 38:24

I don't hate the take. I like it.

SPEAKER_06 38:27

Yeah, I like I'd agree with you. Like, there's not like Batman's character development and like what you can do with Batman kind of comes to a halt. I mean, it's it's like I feel like it's the same with Luffy, it's the same with Superman to an extent. Just kind of like it's not so much about Batman, Luffy, Superman, it's about the people around him and how that how they respond to that, and you know how how you get to see their character in those moments. I'd agree with that. I mean, that's why I immediately was like, I don't hate that take.

SPEAKER_02 38:57

And I do want to say, I do think Batman has been misunderstood for a long time as well, though. Uh, but I do think we're headed in the right direction of him being uh uh more appropriately and accurately understood with the Batman films. The way the the arc that he goes on already in that film as as as wanting to be a a a symbol of fear and then deciding to be more of a symbol of hope and and fear for those who would choose to do wrong at the same time, I think is uh very well done.

SPEAKER_08 39:27

So yeah, because like if you if you would have asked me pre-the Batman what the best Batman movie is, I think a lot of people would have said it's the Dark Knight, or some people really like a couple of the animated ones, but for a live action movie, it's probably the dark knight. But the reason the dark knight is so good is because of Joker, and so now, like with the Batman coming out, nobody's gonna say that the Batman is good because of the Riddler. It's just it's not it's not comparable. So I think that just goes to show that they are leaning in the right direction.

SPEAKER_02 40:01

I do think the Riddler is uh like he's a decent part of why it's good though.

SPEAKER_08 40:05

I not not to yeah, but it's not as it's not as much of a driving force in the world. Sure, than than the Joker, absolutely, yeah. Absolutely 100%.

SPEAKER_06 40:14

Now it's Barry Kyogen's Joker. Alright. Give your take. You're gonna PMO. Oh, it's me? I was second. I thought you were second. Oh no, you were yeah, you were second. All right. I also kind of came a little unprepared, so um good agree. You said you were ready though. I mean, I was ready, but like I I like mine were just last minute, is what I meant to say. My takes were a little bit last minute, so um, I'm gonna fly off a little bit off the cuff with them because I didn't put a lot of thought into them, but I know I stand by them. That's because my first take, my first hot take is that Spider-Man brand new day will be the second highest grossing movie of the year. Okay, I'm standing on that. This is more so calling my shot. It's a hot take. I think Spider-Man brand new day will be the second highest grossing movie of the year. I think Doomsday hits Spider-Man is close.

SPEAKER_08 41:11

Gross. All right, uh for sure. See, I thought I thought we got a nice break from all this box office talk. Are we really about to have to discuss this shit?

SPEAKER_06 41:20

Like I mean, we don't have to talk about our draft, but I think Spider Man, I'm like just not even because it's on my board, I think Spider-Man will have all right.

SPEAKER_08 41:28

I have one, I have one I have three words that I would like to say.

SPEAKER_06 41:34

Toy story story. I'm not flinching. I don't care. I'm standing ground, I'm standing my ten toes down, I'm standing here. That Spider-Man brand new day will be the second highest grossing movie of the year.

SPEAKER_10 41:46

Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 41:49

I'm not flinching. I'm not flinching. I mean, I I can appreciate your your unflinching, your unwaver, uh, your unwavering confidence in it, but I uh I don't think that just because of Toy Story 5.

SPEAKER_06 42:01

I I I think it has it, and I think it beats Toy Story 5 by by a little bit. Um I think this movie creeps up close to 1.8, 1.9. I think Toy Story 5 will be a little bit below it.

SPEAKER_08 42:12

Here's a question Do you think that Toy Story 5 will make more than Zootopia 2? No.

SPEAKER_06 42:21

Like domestically or total? Because because what total total it made 1.9, 1.85?

SPEAKER_08 42:27

Yeah, 1.85.

SPEAKER_06 42:29

Yeah, no, I don't think it makes more than Zootopia.

SPEAKER_08 42:31

I think that's wild.

SPEAKER_06 42:31

I don't think it makes I don't think it makes more than Zootopia 2. I think that's wild to say. I think that's wild to say. There is going in I I I think Toy Story 5, like I I was thinking about this today. I've been thinking about it for um for the past couple days as we've been talking box office, whatnot. Uh I like I want to be firm. I want to stand firm that Spider-Man and what they're cooking up with Spider-Man and word of mouth, and as we get closer to the marketing for this movie, especially at when that second trailer comes out, um I think Spider-Man will be 1.7, 1.8. I think Toy Story 5 will be 1.5, 1.6. Like my my floor for Spider-Man is what did I say, 1.6, 1.5, and my ceiling was 1.8. Um, I still hold firm on that. I think Toy Story 5 will be a little bit below that. I I think Toy Story 5 will be a little bit below Spider-Man.

SPEAKER_08 43:26

I just don't see it. I'm sorry. And it's a it's a great, it's a great tracking is that's fine, bro.

SPEAKER_06 43:33

We like I'm not I'm not flinching, and I know shit's gonna come out. I know uh you know the lists are gonna be popping off projections. I'm not flinching.

SPEAKER_02 43:42

I'm sitting there like you're delusional. Like you could be not flinching, but you're somebody's waving a gun in your face and you're not flinching. Exactly.

SPEAKER_06 43:52

I'm not I'm not I'm not flinching as at Toy Story 5 staring down the barrel. Like I'm not flinching. Spider-Man will gross more than Toy Story 5. Like, I think we're on the highest high that we've ever been in terms of Spider-Man movies. Um in the past. Now, not given toward No Way Home. I know No Way Home. But like post No Way Home, like I think No Way Home did so much for where we're at right now, especially for the character of Peter Parker. And especially as we get closer with marketing, the second trailer TV spots and all that. Once people start to see Hulks in there, once they start to show what the actual premise of the movie is, and if this thing is good, which I think it's going to be fantastic, people are going to want to go out and see it. Uh, it's it's a it's a universal. We we've we've seen the numbers before, it's a universal character. I'm not I'm not flinching, and I'll keep fucking saying it curly. I'm not flinching staring down the barrel of Toy Story 5. Family movie, great. No, no, look, family movie great.

SPEAKER_02 44:55

They're not universal characters.

SPEAKER_06 44:56

You think they're not universal characters? Not as big as Spider-Man, no.

SPEAKER_02 45:01

I don't okay. Well, I'm not gonna push back on that. I think Spider-Man is a bigger character, yes.

SPEAKER_06 45:06

No, it's fine.

SPEAKER_02 45:06

Yeah, I mean, more yeah, they're universal characters, but Spider-Man four. If you say Spider-Man, more people are gonna know who Spider-Man is than if you just say who the fuck is Woody, like who the who's Woody? 100%. What? Are you actually dumb?

SPEAKER_04 45:18

Oh, oh, I was like, That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying crazy.

SPEAKER_02 45:23

But but also, I I think like a universal character, like all the Toy Story characters are like they're universal, like, and not universal of property, but they're universal as like they can be enjoyed by children and people were gonna be confused by that. And fam.

SPEAKER_06 45:40

Well, here's the thing like, yes, families are gonna go out and see Toy Story 5. Families are also gonna go see Spider-Man, but it's like when you have folks like us or like my coworkers, your co-workers, people that are like, Oh, yeah, that new Spider-Man movie, dudes in their 20s, dudes in their 30s, 40s, what like there is there's so much more of an audience there, and like, yes, you go see Toy Story, it's not just gonna be one ticket most of the time, it's gonna be about four or five of them.

SPEAKER_10 46:08

How much did Zootopia make, Benjamin? Can you tell me?

SPEAKER_06 46:10

Second one or Zoopia 2 1.86.

SPEAKER_08 46:15

Okay, so say one.

SPEAKER_11 46:16

And you think that's where Spider-Man's line is 1.8, 1.7, 1.8?

SPEAKER_08 46:21

Uh, where it's ceiling is, yes. So let me get this straight. The same guy who just said Spider-Man is gonna make 1.8 said that Doomsday is gonna make similar to Age of Ultron, which is like 1.4. Wait, what? I when did I say that?

SPEAKER_02 46:37

He well, he did just say Spider-Man is this is gonna be the second highest. He thinks he Avengers is gonna be the highest.

SPEAKER_08 46:42

You said this earlier on this year.

SPEAKER_06 46:44

Maybe you I said that it would play out like Age of Ultron, and um no, and that's fine. Like, I I I have changed some. I mean, obviously, because year goes on, projections come out. I have changed some of my thoughts with that. I do still think no way or brand new day and doomsday will be close. Um, but I do think doomsday will be the crazy, that's will be the cream of the crop. That's crazy. Um, I think if if doomsday is a two billion dollar movie, Spider-Man is a 1.7, 1.8 billion dollar movie. That's ridiculous. That's ridiculous. That's I'm standing on that, and I think Toy Story falls a little bit below Spider-Man.

SPEAKER_08 47:21

I I I'm giving the the minimum gap between Spider-Man and Doomsday is 400 million.

SPEAKER_02 47:26

Minimum what why do you think why is it that you think that Toy Story 5 is not going to make as much as Zootopia 2? I'd like to break that down.

SPEAKER_06 47:39

Um, well, I that is a good question. Um and maybe this is just me projecting. I don't I like I said, Toy Story 5 wasn't even on my radar coming into this draft, coming into paying attention to box office. Um, I didn't think it it had the sauce. I don't I still don't think it has the sauce to at least surpass Spider-Man. Um in terms of why that compared to Zootopia, I can't really tell you why. I think that like I don't have a firm stance on this is exactly why I've looked at the numbers, I've cracked the code, this is why it won't gross as as much as Zootopia 2. I just don't think that we should be looking at this in the lens of hey, look, every because Ben Ben does the every Pixar sequel the past couple years. He did it on on last episode. I was listening the other day. I don't really, I don't, I'm not taking that as gospel, and I know that's not what Ben was his uh objective was. I just don't see it, you know, and I don't think that we should be looking at it in that in that light, because if it doesn't, that means it falls a little bit lower than 1.8, or that falls into the 1.567 range. Um, and I my ceiling for Spider-Man. What I think Spider-Man can do right now is $1.7 billion. Like, I think that's where Spider-Man falls. So I don't know. I I don't necessarily have a firm stance on why compared to Zootopia 2, this will not make more.

SPEAKER_02 49:13

Um so you don't think Zootopia is a bigger property than Toy Story?

SPEAKER_06 49:19

No, not at all. I don't I don't I don't think Zootopia, like again, you you mentioned Zotopia, you mentioned Woody, or you mentioned you know uh Nick or you mentioned Woody. I mean Toy Story has been around since the 90s, it's been around for forever. Like it has it has that leg up on it, but why do we automatically why are we automatically like, yeah, it has that much more of a grasp, it has that much more of an audience. Cool, it's gonna make more, it's gonna make more money than Zootopia 2. You know, I don't I don't I'm I'm not seeing the vision there just in terms of hey, let's look at how history is performed, let's look at how these past couple years have been. Um this is where I'm landing. Like, what did Toy Story 4 make? It made just over a billion.

SPEAKER_09 50:01

I was gonna say it was over a billion, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 50:03

Made a billion. It's like incredible, made a billion. Inside Out 2 broke the record for highest growing animated grossing animated movie of all time at the time it came out. Even Moana 2, which was like yeah, not very well received by anybody, made a billion dollars, and then Zootopia 2 just beat the record for highest grossing animated movies. So why frozen two is like 1.3, 1.4. That's fine. I'm not saying Zero Story 5 is like a half 1.9, but like I know.

SPEAKER_06 50:32

I just I have a question because y'all asked me, and I know I gave a half-assed answer, but I genuinely just don't have like a firm stance on why versus Zootopia 2. But why why is this movie you know? Um why are we putting this movie in Zootopia 2 talks when we've looked at Toy Story 4 made a little over a billion, and then out of all the ones you mentioned, we had what Inside Out 2 and Zootopia 2? We're on Toy Story 5. We have four other movies to kind of look at. Three, if you want to take out the first movie, because whatever. Even just two, if you want to look at Toy Story 3 and 4. We have those to look at. Why are we so starting? I don't think those are the comps.

SPEAKER_08 51:14

So then what is so then why why what is what is me? What tracking the two uh well just for comparables? The two most recent ones would be Zootopia 2 last year, Inside Out 2, and Inside Out 2. Yes, those are the most recent Disney sequels, both have outdone the as time goes on, they just keep outdoing one another.

SPEAKER_06 51:34

But rocking Frozen 2 and Moana 2. What about those two movies?

SPEAKER_08 51:38

Frozen made like 1.4, Moana 2 made a billion, Toy Story 4 made a billion, Incredibles 2 made 1.2, I think.

SPEAKER_06 51:46

So that's the that's the thing, and I guess you gave me your answer. Our most recent two is Inside Out 2 and Zootopia 2, which both made almost $2 billion, and all of these other ones made anywhere from 1 to 1.4 billion. So we're I we're just we're in an upward trajectory.

SPEAKER_08 52:03

Like I don't that's fair. No, that's the last two have been breaking the records, like that's and then tracking is a whole nother thing because right now Toy Story 4 in its opening weekend, Toy Story 5, excuse me, in its opening weekend is projected to beat Zootopia 2's opening weekend, which also was a five-day weekend because it came out during Thanksgiving. And it's tracking to do better than that. It's going to be what is what is it tracking at? What is the number 175? Domestic. Domestic?

SPEAKER_06 52:33

Damn. I I thought I thought I I saw somewhere I saw that Spider-Man was looking at maybe a 210 domestic opening.

SPEAKER_08 52:41

How the hell are people projecting Spider-Man right now? Tickets aren't even out.

SPEAKER_06 52:45

I don't know. I don't know. That's I this guy's the easiest box office sources I've ever seen.

SPEAKER_02 52:51

No, I mean it's it's it's uh I mean just word of mouth, I guess like you can give some sort of idea, but like, but I mean, yeah, it's hard to to track down like specific numbers.

SPEAKER_08 53:00

Right now, I'm seeing approximately 130 million based on early estimates.

SPEAKER_06 53:08

And the estimates for the 130 compared to 150 for Toy Story?

SPEAKER_08 53:13

I mean, that's just current, like that's not based on ticket preset. Like, we're big and what are we doing here? All right, Aiden.

unknown 53:21

What the fuck?

SPEAKER_06 53:22

What? What what is so what is so fucking laughable?

SPEAKER_04 53:26

What? What is so laughable?

SPEAKER_02 53:28

I just don't think I like the legs that you have to stand on here are so fucking paper thin, it's crazy.

SPEAKER_04 53:33

That's why I take sure, man.

SPEAKER_02 53:35

I'll commend, I'll commend you for for for standing fucking 10 toes 10 toes down when you got a fucking barrel aimed at your forehead and one aimed at your fucking groin. I'm glad you're standing 10 toes down, bro.

SPEAKER_04 53:47

Batman's a character. Great take, buddy. Like, holy shit. We're all like, all right, cool.

SPEAKER_02 53:52

Dude, just because you didn't disagree with it doesn't mean nobody else out there is gonna disagree with it. There are so many people who Batman is their favorite fucking character. What are you talking about? And you just saying something that is so like asinine and dumb, like that doesn't make it more of a hot take than mine. Like, what the fuck? It's just it just fucking you're you just said something, and you're not even backing it up with anything other than it's fucking Spider-Man, bro. It's fucking Spider-Man. I think this movie's gonna be great. Like, what the fuck?

SPEAKER_06 54:22

Look at the past fucking movies. Holy shit. Look at the past movies we just talked about. What are you talking about? What? What Intel 2 and fucking Zootopia 2? Let's look at the fucking Toy Story movies, the property we're talking about. What the fuck you mean?

SPEAKER_02 54:36

What do you mean? I have nothing to stand on.

SPEAKER_06 54:41

Oh no, no, no, no, no, no. Hold on. What do you mean I have nothing to stand on? No, I'm talking to try. What do you mean I have nothing to stand on? Uh, you said I have nothing to back it up, uh, other than it's just Spider-Man.

SPEAKER_02 54:52

Spider-Man.

SPEAKER_06 54:53

Okay, well, let's look at fucking Toy Stories past couple movies. That's what I'm saying. Like, you're you're so inside out to Zootopia 2. Cool. Everything else before that, one to 1.4 billion. Like, and and and the opening track, what 20 million dollars off? What I'm trying to get clarity there.

SPEAKER_08 55:12

Okay, your tracking is just bullshit right now. Let's just be very clear about that.

SPEAKER_06 55:15

But you gave me the fucking number.

SPEAKER_04 55:18

What are you talking about? You told me 130.

SPEAKER_02 55:21

I looked it up and said it's not based on any actual ticket pre-200. You said 200 million. Something like that. I told you.

SPEAKER_06 55:28

I said I took I saw 210 on some random fucking ticket. And Ben gave me 130. Yeah, Ben gave me 130, but you said 220. Based on actual ticket presales. Okay, where are the fucking ticket pre-sales for Spider-Man? They haven't come out yet. You fucking that's okay. Okay, that's a fair. That's I'm not saying that's not a fair point to have. I just said 130, 150. What the hell? That's because you I asked for a number. What are you seeing then? Since you want to shit on what the fuck I'm seeing, what are you seeing then? I'm not seeing any 130. You gave me the number 130. I said that's not that far off. And Charlie just starts giggling his little curly head. I wasn't giving you 130 as what I'm saying. I wasn't giving you a 130, as like, oh, I believe this. I know just looking it up because you were probably 210 bullshit. I know, I know, I know, I know. What I was saying, if you'd listen, fucking hell, I got me breaking a sweat. Holy shit. If you would listen, what I was saying is, oh my god. Let me take a second. Holy shit. Oh, I'm having fun. Um, what I was saying was if I know that my number was crazy because I saw 210 just on a random tweet. So I said, What do you see? So give you throw me something from what you're looking. You're on your computer right now, you're looking. The number that I heard was 130. I said 130 to 150. That's not that far off. I not even I know it's based on nothing because we don't have fucking ticket sales, and then Charlie just started giggling. That's what started this whole fucking tangent. Um my giggling. I know it's based on nothing. We have no, we have no ticket sales. I'm just saying that this is what I believe based on what I'm seeing, and I know it's not that much of a hot take because it's not an opinion that I mean it's opinion that differs for most people, but it's also based on cold, hard facts that we are gonna see soon. Again, which is why I said I didn't put a lot of time into like what my actual hot takes are. Um, but still, like uh I still stand on everything I say, and I know it's I know it's a hot take, but it's like that's what the fuck we're here to do.

SPEAKER_08 57:36

I need to move on to something else that I know you you said that's that's no, no, no, not my take. We're still going. Some other thing that you said earlier, where you talked about how we shouldn't look at inside out too, we shouldn't look at Zootopia 2, we should go back to Toy Story 4, which came out in 2019. You know what that's like doing that's like telling you that you should go back and look at Far From Home, which also came out in 2019, which made 1.1.1. Yeah, 1.1.

SPEAKER_02 58:01

No way home made how much did Toy Story 4 make back then?

SPEAKER_09 58:05

Just over one, just over one, okay. Yeah, so 1.1 versus 1.

SPEAKER_08 58:10

Okay, yeah. Uh No Way Home was just shy of $2 billion, and this was still like we were not far off of like we, you know, we had Far From Home, which was right after Endgame. People were still super hype. That year of like No Way Home, the hype of three Spider-Man, all of that coming out at that time. I don't think that the MCU has reached that level of hype, even with the doomsday stuff so far. We have not gotten to that point that no way home had that momentum in 2021, and that movie made 1.9. If you're telling me that this movie is gonna come close to that, I just can't believe you.

SPEAKER_06 58:49

I I just 1.6 because my range is 1.6 to 1.8. You don't think Spider-Man lands anywhere in that range?

SPEAKER_08 58:56

One point, I I think I gave the ceiling of 1.5.

unknown 59:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_08 59:00

My ceiling.

SPEAKER_06 59:01

I think I and that's fair. And my ceiling is different. Like, that's the point of this of these takes. Like, it is it is uh Toy Story 4 made what made a little over one bill in 2019, Far From Home made a little over one bill in 2019. Now we have the face-off round two, whatever you want to call it. Franchises are both in completely opposite positions. Like, that's just my take.

SPEAKER_08 59:24

No way home's opening weekend was 260 million dollars.

SPEAKER_06 59:29

That's actually crazy. Holy shit. What was like far uh endgames was like 300 opening weekend three sixty.

SPEAKER_02 59:43

I mean, if we're just looking at like that is crazy. If we're just looking at like every angle, I mean it's been longer uh since the last Toy Story movie than the last Spider-Man movie. Um there are more actually I can't say that. I can't say that. I was gonna say there are more merchandising opportunities, and I can't say that. Spider-Man is a very merchandisable character. Uh, but so is Toy Story, though. I I'd argue that they're probably very similar uh merchandising uh potential. Uh hold on. There's multiple Toy Story rides in all of the Disney parks. Uh the there those characters are walking around the parks. Granted, Spider-Man is too. There's one Spider-Man ride.

SPEAKER_08 1:00:23

That's that's a rights thing. It's gotta be a rights thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:26

There would have been why Spider-Man can't walk around the Disney parks in Florida.

SPEAKER_08 1:00:30

No, no, no, no, no. I'm saying there would definitely be more Spider-Man IP and rides and whatever if Spider-Man, if Disney had access to Spider-Man earlier.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:40

Yeah, because and there's stuff, well, there, and there's stuff with the Universal stuff, too. Like there's a ride in Universal, yeah. Yeah, there's a ride in Universal, and Disney can't have that east of the Mississippi River or something like that. I don't know what the specific clause is, but um I don't know. There's just like, and as you said, Toy Story has been around since the 90s. Obviously, Spider-Man's been around since the 60s. Um, people love Spider-Man. Obviously, I I'm gonna say that more people love Spider-Man than they love Toy Story, but just looking at all angles, um Yeah, you've been breaking down all angles, and you keep going back to well, I guess Spider-Man does MOG there.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:16

Like you keep going back to, well, I guess Spider-Man this, I guess Spider-Man that.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:21

I mean, I'm just I'm I'm just giving fair credit where credit is due.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:24

No, it's fine.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:25

Um, but I just think that not to say that I think people are gonna be tired of Spider-Man, I do think that there's an element of superhero fatigue uh per se. I don't I don't know if I guess I would call it that, but just for lack of a better term, uh I mean, just look at last year. Uh nothing performed well other than Superman in the box office. So, I mean, and that's Marvel included.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:51

That's kind of unfair. I mean, you got Thunderbolts, Fantastic Four. You got Thunderbolts and a fantastic barely, I think barely broke even.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:58

And barely that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:00

Like, yeah, no, they did, they did not do good. Like, but you also have to look at what the movies are centered around, like the Fantastic Four. Yeah, I mean what is the Fantastic Four as big as like an Iron Man nowadays, uh a Captain America, a Spider-Man, any other movie that like a like Deadpool and Wolverine went berserk. Like to to to look at and say to look at last year and say the Marvel movies last year didn't perform great. It's like, yeah, I mean, you got Thunderbolts and then uh a movie set in a different universe a different time period, and uh over characters that have it.

SPEAKER_10 1:02:34

General audience doesn't know about the different universe a different time period, general general general audience hadn't okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:40

Fair, okay, then take that. But I mean, still like Fantastic Four who has not been in the zeitgeist in a very long time. Like, you think they have enough pull to stand up with like a like uh if you're enough, but neither were coming out, or if not Superman were coming out?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:00

Fair enough, but neither Superman hadn't been the zeitgeist since I mean I I guess technically Black Adam, but even then that was just a post-credit scene. And before that, I mean it wasn't in there until Justice since Justice League.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:11

Superman's fine. Like, I'll give you Superman. Like, I even don't really know what to combat for there, but to look at to look at what it did okay though, like 600 600 million.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:22

I think its breakeven was was like 400 mil, 500 mil. I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:27

Well, I mean, just in terms of just gross, but like to to say that Thunderbolts and and Fantastic Four are good grounds to see where Marvel's at right now. If they were to put out a super Spider-Man or a Avengers movie, to look at those two movies as a scale of what these other movies would do, I think that's unfair. I think that's insanely.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:48

Uh okay, well then let's look at uh both.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:51

But that's what I'm saying. Let's look at Superman. Like Superman's a great beyond that.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:55

I like let's keep it keeping it with Marvel. Let's look before Deadpool and Wolverine. Ant-Man and the Lost Quantumania. Uh that didn't perform that didn't perform well. And Ant-Man is a storied character within the fucking universe, and like obviously the movie isn't great, and it wasn't fucking like Ant-Man is I'm not a champion for a fucking movie. What do you mean? That's not true. That's that's there's no way that's true. Ant Man the Wasp? No way.

SPEAKER_08 1:04:17

Ant Man Wasp, pretty sure made a billion dollars.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:21

Well, yeah, I mean, it's right before Endgame.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:23

Like, let's not am I tripping?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:25

Uh you might be tripping on that one. I don't remember that. I think maybe 800 mil. I can see 800 mil.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:30

I don't even want to look at those as comparisons, so that's just okay.

SPEAKER_08 1:04:33

I I'm tripping. It made it made 600 million. Oh, okay. Captain Marvel made a billion, yeah, a billion.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:43

That's like endgame time, though. Like, I mean, obviously, there's a lot of factors. I think that's part of the reason why Far From Home made a billion dollars. But uh I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:52

Let's look at the big let's look at Deadpool, let's look at the Spider-Man movies, let's look at the Avengers movies. Like, that's what we're comparing right now. Because Marvel is that big of a movie.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:01

No, let's not look at the Marvels. Like, dude, you're you're you're you're getting further away from your point.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:06

No, but no, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:07

If we just establish that Captain Marvel made a billion dollars, how can we look at the marvels instead of thinking there's nothing?

SPEAKER_06 1:05:13

Going up to going uh right before endgame, that's such a dumbass. Like, don't look at the I'm just saying, man. I'm just saying, no, no, that's so dumb. You know that's bullshit. Captain Marvel, any universe you put out a Captain Marvel movie that's not literally leading up to Endgame is not gonna make anywhere, it's it's gonna flop. It is not gonna do good. We both know that. You can't say this made a billion dollars, let's look at the Marvels. No, it's such an unfair comparison. I'm talking about Spider-Man, Avengers, some of these uh Deadpool and Wolverine, these big I'd even give you Guardians of the Galax uh Galaxy, combat me on that. Like these are the these are the movies we need to be Yeah, that we need to be looking at Far From Home over a billion and No Way Home 1.9.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:57

Like Okay, well, uh if you're using Endgame point, you can't use You can't you can't use it for far from home. You can't use far from home then if you're gonna use the end.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:03

Okay, fine, fine. 1.9 for no way home. And okay, yeah. 700 for um uh homecoming. But so wait, we think I can't far from home. It's after like post-endgame.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:16

What do you think era? That's the first, literally the first one after endgame. Like, but like how are they gonna continue this?

SPEAKER_04 1:06:22

The marvels you want to do.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:24

I'm saying if I can't use that, then you can't use Far From Home. That's what I'm saying, Aiden. That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:28

That's such an unfair comparison. That's still all right. Can you tell me how it's unfair?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:33

Can you tell me how it's unfair? Or is it gonna be another one of those? I can't tell you the exact reason why I don't think it's gonna make as much as Zookie 2.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:41

A fucking Captain Marvel movie compared to a Spider-Man movie both centered around Endgame. Yeah, yeah, sure, bro. Let's let's compare the Marvels in this conversation because look at what Captain Marvel did. Yeah, it's a fucking idiot excuse. Like, what are you talking about?

SPEAKER_08 1:06:55

Million dollars, bro. Million dollars, buddy.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:57

All right, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:06:57

All I'm hearing is if brand new day can match the heights of no way home. Doomsday can match the heights of endgame. That's all I'm that's all I'm hearing.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:10

Yeah, I mean, I I'd agree, I think I'd agree with that. I think I've been agreeing with that. What two billion? I mean, obviously that I like that's possible.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:16

Not just not to combat you randomly, but just possible, but I don't think that it's happening. I don't think that that's like just because one happens doesn't mean the other one will happen. Uh but I'm not that you're necessarily saying that, but I'm just saying.

SPEAKER_08 1:07:28

Yeah, yeah.

unknown 1:07:28

All right.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:29

We gotta go with so wait, are you but but Ben, are you in saying that? Are you saying that if Spider-Man doesn't match the hype levels of No Way Home, are you then worried about Doomsday?

SPEAKER_08 1:07:39

I will judge Doomsday in comparison to Spider-Man's performance based on what I think the gap will be between the two. So I've stood by that. Like, let's say Aiden's right, Spider-Man is a $1.7 billion movie. I think Doomsday could easily be 2.2. I will like kind of judge it in comparison within the 500 mil. I mean, and we it depends if Spider-Man only makes like 1.1, I'm still probably gonna say that Doomsday is making two, personally. It depends on how low Spider-Man goes, I guess.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:15

I know Brandon's sentiment is that Spider-Man is kind of the grasp of what doomsday will will look like. Um, so I've just been keeping an eye out for that kind of because again, they're they're all in the same conversation. You can't look at Thunderbolts in Fantastic Four and then try to predict how Doomsday will behave. I think it kind of looks at what Spider-Man does, and then you can kind of get a grasp on how Doomsday behaves. I do think they're they're linked to what extent, I'm not sure. But and I don't know. I did talk, I guess my my reasoning for the Zootopia 2 thing is I don't is just looking at the previous um Toy Story movies, and we've already talked about all that.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:52

So the last one was pre-COVID, though, and every movie post-COVID has blown up. So, like I don't know. Not every movie, but every animated movie. I mean, every Disney animated movie has blown up. Sequel specifically. Sequel, yes. Originals have done terrible, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:09:09

Yeah, no, I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:10

Yeah, we'll see. Anyways, that's that's my take. I mean, I'm ready to die on the hill. I don't care.

SPEAKER_08 1:09:15

Like, I mean, I'm just excited that in in like two months we're gonna have a more clear answer. And I'll be honest, I might have pulled an A and I might have seen some of the leaked trailer. I might have. Let's just say that. Uh and I I all that I'll say because I don't want to, I won't talk details or anything, but there's a couple movies this year that I'm like I'm I've re-watched or I know I'm going to re-watch. So Obsession and Backrooms, those are the only two so far. I have tickets to see the Odyssey twice, so like I know that that's gonna happen. Yeah, I I think Spider-Man will be a repeat viewing. Also, part of the reason I'm saying that is I was looking at, and and this is maybe to Aiden's credit, I was looking at the release calendar, and Spider-Man has a very good window releasing right at the end of July. There is not much competition immediately after that.

SPEAKER_09 1:10:10

Whereas Toy Story is hitting Minions with itself in two weeks.

SPEAKER_08 1:10:16

Yeah, minions, Moana, Spider-Man, Odyssey.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:21

Like it's I would have I would have loved if you could have just sprinkled some of this earlier while I was fucking screaming my head off, but it's fine. I mean, I'll take it now. Um, no, but what uh the other thing I want to do is come with your own arguments, buddy. It's uh I mean we're supposed to also participate in the podcast, right? Not like just sit on our you want us to be your argument for you anyway, it's fucking crazy. Anyways, it's it's releasing in China, which uh is the first time since I think Guardians is the first time in a long time that yeah, no way are um that they're dropping in China. Um, and I know I talked to Brandon about this, and he's like, Yeah, well, you know, some of the superhero movies that have come out there have only made about 20 to 30 mil. He's like, however, uh, I forget what movie, I think it was Guardians. I think it was Guardians volume three, maybe it was the first Guardians, I'm not sure. Something there, and I might have my numbers wrong. I'll double check while we get to Ben's take. Um was looking at like 300 mil that was like being added on Jesus with China. I I will double check that. Don't take those numbers as gospel, but the my sentiment is it's releasing in China, and I know that that wasn't um I don't feel like that could be the case for any of the Guardians movies because that's like in comparison. I like I said, don't take that don't take the numbers as gospel, don't take the numbers as gospel. But my sentiment was that yeah, China could help it out a lot because I know that that's a big deal, so sure, yeah. Anyways, but yes, everything else that you said, yeah, I agree, Ben.

SPEAKER_08 1:11:47

We'll see, we'll see very, very soon. All right, my first hot take. Marvel should have never released TV shows in the MCU.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:02

Yeah, 100%. I think we've talked about this. I think we've talked about it a little bit. I I I think I agree with that. I feel like you've said this one before, Benjamin.

SPEAKER_08 1:12:10

Have I actually? I feel like you've said you have.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:12

We've had this conversation. I think we made a short about this.

SPEAKER_08 1:12:15

I think we made oh my gosh, I'm throwing. I think we made this a TikTok. Literally, some of the exact things I was going to say, I'm now having deja vu that have already said them. Where I'm like, I would sacrifice these good seasons. Yes, Loki season two.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:29

Yeah, yeah, because Loki, Loki season two was a big one that we talked about, and I can't remember my take, but I was like, I do think that they should not have done it, they shouldn't have done TV shows, but I would not sacrifice some of the TV shows for like what I think they could have potentially done. I don't know. We because we you talked about how uh some of them would work better as movies, anyways.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:51

And I was like, you cannot do Loki season two in a movie, but like I guess just to like maybe now that we have I want to I don't want to say foresight, but just a little bit of like a better idea of of the immediate future, uh, to maybe mix that into what you're talking about. What it what exactly do you mean by that? Do you mean like uh if they hadn't done it, the franchise would be much better off and to be viewed more highly? Because like, how do you hold that stance, but then also say that you think Doomsday is still gonna be a fucking monster of a movie? Because like clearly it hasn't damaged the brand that much, then if you think of that.

SPEAKER_08 1:13:33

So I'm interested. I think Doomsday is just too big to fail because I mean they're bringing in so many characters. I mean, we have all like all the X-Men, the Avengers, whatever, RDJ's back, the Russos are back. Like, I I think that's kind of independent of where I think anybody who like has had doubts or has felt the last few years of Marvel, I would say there's so many people who are gonna be like, Well, I at least got to go check out Doomsday and see what's going on. Just it's it's got I think it's got too much backing behind it. Um, I don't actually think it'll be as big of a movie as Endgame, I don't think that's realistic, but I I I think it's clearly going to be their biggest movie in recent years.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:18

So do you think Secret Wars could be as big as Endgame? Just off of right now, before you know how Doomsday performs.

SPEAKER_08 1:14:25

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_08 1:14:27

They've been they've been on an upward trajectory, and I'll say if Spider-Man is good and Doomsday is good, that Secret Wars is teed up to be that big. I I do think so.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:38

We still don't know what else is coming out next year, too. Right. Other than Secret Wars, which we'll find out at Comic-Con, I'm sure. Yeah. And isn't D23 this year too? Because they didn't do it last year. It might be. I think it's every even year, so yeah, 2026.

SPEAKER_08 1:14:55

Specifically, your other question about like what I mean and what that means for the implications of the shows that did release. What I mean is I think that if they had not released the TV shows and stuck to theatrical releases, obviously COVID played a factor in this. Like people were watching stuff at home, so that like lends itself more towards TV shows. Um, but for me personally, uh I just think it became a pattern of like cool ideas that just like didn't really need to be full-on TV shows, and a lot of the new stuff that was brought in didn't really work super well. Uh, for as much as like Charlie defends Falcon and Winter Soldier, it's like it has good ideas and good moments, but like uh some of the new like the the the villains. I mean, obviously, we ended up getting Wyatt Russell back in Thunderbolts, and we we all enjoyed that, but um it it just seem a lot of it seems very unnecessary, and I would have much rather that I mean there's there's kind of this theory going around that Kevin Feige and whoever else was very spread thin with how many projects there were, because at some point there was like still three movies plus like five shows coming out or whatever. So I think if we just eliminated that element and could have directed our focus more into like actually planning out the next phase of the MCU, I think that could have worked really well. And instead, we got TV shows, which early on most of them were based on characters that we already knew. And so it kind of felt like them just trying to make shows latching onto the stuff that we liked while not giving us a clear direction forward. Whereas if they had kind of like taken a pause and not been like, oh, let's just keep scaling, going bigger, bigger, bigger, TV shows, more characters, whatever, new storylines and all that. I think that it could have been a lot more focused, which I think is a problem that a lot of us have with the last few years of the MCU. Uh and ultimately, I I wish we would have gotten more movies these last few years. I mean, 2024, we only had Deadpool and Wolverine. And I know that like that was in part due to like Blade getting canceled, but it's like, okay, what happened from the start of production for Blade to it getting delayed and then ultimately canceled? Who was not involved that should have been involved to make sure that that project was handled properly so we could have actually just gotten that movie? Why why is it the case that we have something announced and it's so mistreated that part way through production it has to get completely canned? Those things to me, like you have to point to something, and at some point you can just point to the time and effort that was put into TV shows. And so I would be willing to sacrifice the like to me, maybe three or good three or four good seasons of television that we got out of the TV shows. I would sacrifice that if it meant that our phase of movies is in a better state.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:02

Okay, I would ask you specifically, would you get rid of all those TV shows, all those good TV shows for a better Ant-Man than the Wasp Quantumania?

SPEAKER_06 1:18:14

Well, you you lit, I think you literally asked this last time too. We did talk about like if we could put more effort into Quantumania and sacrifice some of the shows. Yeah, like I swear Quantumania was brought up last time. I think it was.

SPEAKER_08 1:18:28

I feel like I don't remember asking that, but I mean it basically was just like, well, you know, how much better do you want to make Quantumania to sacrifice certain things?

SPEAKER_02 1:18:36

I think was kind of the well, not I guess I I was gonna go from Quantumania to other things too. So like like the Marvels, like how how much so here's the would you sacrifice all the good TV shows to get a better The Marvels movie?

SPEAKER_08 1:18:49

Well, here's here's my because ultimately I guess this take is further than just they shouldn't release TV shows, because in my head that doesn't mean oh, they didn't release TV shows, therefore, all of the movies that we did get are better movies. I think it would have implications on the movies that we ended up getting as well for me personally. I think that would have happened as a result. A better planned out future idea of where the universe is heading, where the next phases are heading, could have ended up in us not getting a quantum mania. We didn't release Loki, we don't have Kang, we don't have Quantumania because we're not teeing him up to be a villain. Like it's kind of the implications of it are broader than just like keeping the movies the same but better quality. Because I think like that's my my whole idea with it is that the movies that we did end up getting are a clearer vision for the future, uh, and just better movies in general. So it's kind of hard to answer that specifically for any of the projects because I think the whole thing would have been completely different.

SPEAKER_09 1:19:58

Yeah. I don't even know that that's really a hot take. I think most people would agree with you.

SPEAKER_08 1:20:04

I just think the idea of like sacrificing certain seasons, people maybe wouldn't be as on clean then. But yeah, yeah, we can leave that as my first one just so we have a you know, we can get to the others.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:23

Um I I do want to say before we transition, before we transition out, um Aquaman. I I was wrong on my numbers, it wasn't Guardians. Far from Home made 200 mil in China, uh Venom made 270 million dollars in China, Aquaman made 300 million dollars in China. The first one, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:20:43

It's crazy to me that the first Aquaman was a billion-dollar movie. I feel like nowadays that movie would be like oh, that would be horrible. 400 million or something.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:53

Yeah, I wonder why it was like when it wasn't because that was one of the few DCU DCU e DCEU projects that made a billion dollars, right?

SPEAKER_08 1:21:03

It was like why Aquaman, one of the highest grossing DCU movies.

SPEAKER_09 1:21:08

That's just crazy to me.

SPEAKER_08 1:21:10

I don't really know, but yeah.

SPEAKER_09 1:21:12

All right, Charlie. I still don't have a second one, bro. I had all this time to think about.

SPEAKER_06 1:21:20

I I know I don't really have a great second one either. Yeah, bro.

SPEAKER_09 1:21:24

Like I I feel like I I'm kind of I'm a basic ass bitch, bro. I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 1:21:29

I don't have I don't have yeah, uh it's just like we bring up a topic and like in terms of preparation and like bringing something to the show, it's like yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:44

Uh sorry, I can I can just say something that's just batshit crazy, and then like we all just universally in any other day of the week would agree that like that would not happen, but then I could just be considered a hot take because I'm just saying it and like it makes good makes good content, makes good content, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:02

Gives us something to do other than just listening to monotone, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:22:05

Yeah, no, it's we could do a wraparound where I just go again and we snake back. I have I have my other take. Yeah, give give me your give me your second. But you guys gotta you you guys gotta be thinking. Uh all right, so my second hot take. If handled correctly, Star Wars would be the biggest movie franchise of all time.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:34

If handling uh it can be any if handled correctly, okay, because you said superheroes in the group chat.

SPEAKER_09 1:22:41

That's why I was only seeing the superheroes.

SPEAKER_08 1:22:43

I yeah. I said that as like oh, I kind of want to we'll just do a superhero something, but then it this was it wasn't meant to limit this specific thing. Sure, sure, sure. If handled correctly, Star Wars would be the biggest movie franchise of all time.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:06

I I wanna I wanna agree, I wanna agree off rap. Like I wanna I wanna agree off rip. Um can I really give some reasoning? Like define, yeah. I mean, give me reasoning, but I my biggest thing is the definition of handled correctly.

SPEAKER_08 1:23:23

So that is that is a very, very good question because that's a very hard thing to define. No, just fair, yeah. Yeah, to start off, Force Awakens came out and grossed about two billion dollars, it broke two billion dollars, and I think it still holds the record for the highest domestic grossing film of all time. Uh, I think it has that record. Um, and so to me, when I look at that, if The Force Awakens was like a phenomenal movie, very, very well done, setting up this new storyline, whatever, whatever that may have looked like, and then that teed up into a phenomenal trilogy of movies, because they progressively made less and less. Force Awakens made 2 billion, last Jedi made like 1.7, and then I think Rise of Skywalker was like 1.3 because people didn't receive it very well, especially towards the end, Rise of Skywalker universally hated um by by the fandom. So, in my head, Force Awakens, if it was like a true like we are so back, returned to the franchise, then them building up a trilogy like that is the equivalent, in my opinion, to like Marvel releasing like Infinity War into Endgame, like they could have had a Force Awakens into an even better second movie, into an even better end of the trilogy, and had this like huge momentum if they were phenomenal movies that everybody loved. And so, like, simply based on that, I think that they could have had that momentum on top of then, like, if they were actually quality movies, then spin-offs would actually work for them and and they could do a couple of movies a year. I mean, Rogue One still was received well and made a billion dollars. Rogue One made a billion dollars, and then obviously Solo flopped because people thought it was just like a useless, like, why are we getting an origin story for Han Solo? And now obviously Mando and Grogu because it's just a few episodes of the TV show. The point being that, like, if we were getting like top, top quality movies, I think back when Force Awakens was coming out, I think they had the momentum that could have rivaled like the MCU if we were getting that kind of treatment. So I think it just needed to, when it came back, because this was over 10 years ago, if they had a more clear idea of like we're telling an overarching story, here's the timeline we're in, whatever. Well thought out, well directed, everything just like top, top notch. I think they had the potential to be become a bigger movie franchise than Marvel.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:09

Um and obviously that's a lot of like no, I agree, I agree.

SPEAKER_08 1:26:14

Obviously, that's a lot of like if if if if if who's to say, but like based on how successful it was, even with like the poor reception, it's just like pretty to me that seems like a pretty almost obvious take to be just like, yeah, if this was better, it would it would be even bigger. Because I I do think that there is probably more I don't know if I can say this, but this is kind of a this is kind of a subtake to my main take. Uh-huh. I I think I know where you're going. I think there are more. I don't even know how to word this. I don't want to say there's more Star Wars fans than Marvel fans, because that's like but they're I there might be. I I would from a movie perspective. I I think there might be more fans of like Star Wars as a movie franchise than Marvel as a movie franchise. Yeah, yeah, 100%. They just haven't gotten as many movies to to really show that. So yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 1:27:18

Yeah, I think it I think uh trilogy handled right would 100% be bigger than the MCU today. And I think there are more Star Wars fans, movie fans out there than MCU movie fans. Yep. Charlie, you're I agree with that part.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:33

I agree with that part, but no, it just it wouldn't it would not be big because this I don't want to transition to mine, but uh yeah, so I won't. But uh I just uh there's I I don't think that that's even remotely true. I don't think I think the franchise has find it. No, I know I know exactly what I'm gonna say. It's just it leads in again, it leads Into what I am gonna say uh for my hot take. So like I just don't know what I would say that. I know you don't want to hear it. I don't know if you're gonna want to hear it. Um I just think that the franchise as a whole has just never been all that great. Like I've seen I've seen all the original movies, I've seen all the original movies, I've uh I've I've seen the prequels. I think the the storytelling with character storytelling specifically within them has always been very shoddy. Sure, you can tell an overall uh an overarching story that uh uh about good persevering over evil, uh, and that's great. I I I think that uh I think that that does a it's a very compelling job of doing that. I think outside of Andor, the franchise does not handle characters well whatso fucking ever. Whatso fucking ever.

SPEAKER_08 1:28:53

So uh well listen, we'll get to it probably when you do your take. But I I just think that I'll agree with you that practically, realistically, the idea of Star Wars is better than the content itself. I I'll agree with you on that front. But um, like I said, I think if it was handled well, we'd be having a completely different conversation.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:22

But maybe, but when do you think it stopped being handled well? Like the prequel era? Because like the prequels say now that it was never handled great. The revenge of the Sith is not that great now.

SPEAKER_08 1:29:38

It's never been handled well, it never has.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:41

So you're saying even the original trilogy?

SPEAKER_06 1:29:44

Uh, I think the original trilogy is great. I think that's still standing.

SPEAKER_08 1:29:47

I I like the original trilogy, but like I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:53

You're saying George Lucas had no idea what the fuck he was doing building his universe.

SPEAKER_08 1:29:57

Well, he made the prequels, so clearly sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:59

No, yeah, but I'm saying, I'm saying when he built it from the ground up, right?

SPEAKER_08 1:30:03

And yeah, I just think I think after that point, Star Wars conceptually and as an idea was really good. I think it needed to have somebody else at the helm to flesh it out in a better way and then not transition over to a big studio and people who don't know what they're doing to make it a mess. Like, I think if we were back in the early 2000s and we had like an MCU-esque overhaul for Star Wars, where you had like a better structure, and like you know, you're Kevin Feige, you're producing all these projects, whatever. I think if you have that for Star Wars in the early 2000s, I think it is that potential huge franchise that we're talking about.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:51

Well, and and I'll I'll ask this just because I'm interested. Do you think that without Disney stepping in, do you think that Star Wars could have ever matched MCU in terms of how big it is, had there not been an entity to step in and kind of take things over?

SPEAKER_02 1:31:08

Because we saw that happen with I feel like so there's Marvel's as big as it is because Disney stepped in, though, as well as what's what I would say.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:17

That's why I'm asking, but I see I because I know what you're saying is like having to Kevin Feige come in and kind of overhaul things, but you're saying just uh do exactly what you did, give it give it away to Disney, just have better care with it, just take better care with what they're doing, if if that is in the 2000s, yeah, just like what what we ended up getting.

SPEAKER_08 1:31:40

Whoever was in charge at the time where we decided to just pull a Charlie, show up on day one of filming Star Wars and just pull from the heart and just say whatever you want. And then you're just like, Oh, yeah, let's switch directors, let's you know, let's let's not plan out this trilogy. And then the next director has the somehow the flexibility to just like undo stuff from the previous one, and then you bring back the first guy, and you're like, Yeah, here's here's kind of what you're left with make a conclusion, end the trilogy.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:16

Whoever was in charge of that over I don't understand that because you guys, because you guys are avid last Jedi haters, so like why are you upset with them changing stuff? You're a lot, you're a last Jedi hater too, are you not? You've always you see you've been right there with Ben sucking off the fucking hate boner of that movie.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:36

I I have always said that I did not like the movie when I first watched it. I do not want to make an opinion without having like re-watched it. Same thing with like you haven't rewatched it, you've only watched it the one time. I have not the last watched the last Jedi in a long time, yeah. So that's why I'm not gonna make any Charlie.

SPEAKER_08 1:32:52

What's your what's the point you're trying to make here?

SPEAKER_02 1:32:54

Why are you so when they go and change the things that you didn't like in The Last Jedi, why are you why do you not like that? Like so you want them to stick with the stuff that you didn't like?

SPEAKER_08 1:33:05

Well, no, no, no. It it's not that they changed stuff from the last Jedi, it's that the last Jedi changed stuff from the Force Awakens, Force Awakens, and now you bring back JJ Abrams to direct The Rise of Skywalker. His vision is now ruined by The Last Jedi, and so he makes do with what he can with what's teed up for him and makes a third movie that's just inherently a mess. And it's not that he then changed stuff from the last Jedi.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:32

He did change some stuff from the last Jedi, he did, well, uh as it pertains to Ray's character, specifically and whatnot.

SPEAKER_08 1:33:38

Well, that was that's a whole different can of worms. Uh why any of it played out the way that it did of she's somebody, she's nobody, she's a Palpatine, she's now a skywalker, killing myself. But that like, I I just think the whole thing was a mess. Like, there was no the whole the overall point, like, take away everything we're talking about here. The whole point is there was no clear picture, there was no thought, there was no vision of what that trilogy was going to look like. Each movie feels like because it for the most part was it was written and directed by a completely different person who wasn't actually trying to tell a coherent story. That's a huge problem, and anybody who greenlit that and was involved with that should be fired. Like, that's that's how I feel. It's it's very upsetting to see how that's being handled, and now we get this the first Star Wars film back in seven years, and frick, this little twerp, bro, deserved, he had it coming, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:34:45

That's what we're doing. But then, and then so that would bring me to that then, too. Well, we're we just got a movie where it's had a consistent creator, consistent writer, consistent director throughout the entirety of the TV show, and now into the movie, and you still didn't get what you would have hoped for from that that that entry into the franchise, but also the franchise. So like I don't know and granted, I know this is just I know this is just one director and one writer, uh, but like I'm just saying it it it it's an anecdotal piece of evidence that goes against your keeping the same vision with the same person would make it ideally turn out correctly.

SPEAKER_08 1:35:30

But like I don't know or better not correctly. The same guy directed all the Sharknado movies.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:37

It's like I don't like it's gotta be But no, that's not a fair comparison because you like Mandalorian season one and also a little bit of season two, so like that's not a fair comparison. So like you what you just said is that the Sharknado movies, because they're all bad, and like the the same director just directed them, they were of course all bad, but like Mandalorian season one is really good, and season two is also still pretty good, but then season three is not great, apparently. I haven't seen it, but then the movie is fucking awful.

SPEAKER_08 1:36:03

So like well, then John Favre was just the good comp here because he like you know he directed some decent movies and then directed Iron Man, and then he's been on a downward trajectory, he directed the Lion King animated remake or whatever. It's like I don't I'm not just saying that consistency fixes the problem. Um the bigger point is the bigger point is planning, like the the plan to have the Mandalorian and Grogu end in the exact same way that it starts and accomplish absolutely nothing is not a good plan at all. Sure. I don't like I at some point I guess it doesn't matter who is directing it as much as it matters who is greenlighting the vision of the story that we're telling at whatever period in time that we're telling it. That didn't happen for the sequels, that wasn't the case for this Mandalorian movie. I would say the only time it's really been the case, Rogue One. That's the only time with Disney. Uh maybe there's some animated shows that you can point to. A lot of people like the end of the Clone Wars, a lot of people like Bad Batch Maul, whatever.

SPEAKER_10 1:37:17

Did they announce an Andor show right when Rogue One came out?

SPEAKER_08 1:37:20

Or no, not right when it came because Andor season one, I think, was 2021, right? 2022, and Rogue One was 2016. 2016. Yeah. So it was it was a little bit. But I would say that's the o that's the only thing that they've done that's like coherent, well thought out, plan, and execution. And so the point is like you obviously you have some overlap of like writers within that. Uh Gareth Edwards directed the movie, and now Gareth Edwards has made you know a mid-Jurassic world film, so like who cares? But the point being, like, it can be directed, written by like a group of people, as long as the vision is there, it can work out. Because it did in this this one specific instance.

SPEAKER_06 1:38:08

So I just think like Star Wars with a Star Wars with a cohesive vision for taking the story past episodes one through six could be bigger than the MCU. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. See, and I'd agree with that.

SPEAKER_08 1:38:28

I think I think there's enough post-six and there's enough pre-1, and there's enough in between. Like, obviously, there's big questions of like, you know, if you're jumping time periods back and forward and whatever, like, how do you how do you do that? Whatever. Yeah. The point being, there's so much to explore, there's so much that we don't get to explore, there's so much that's being explored now through video games, there's stuff that's being explored through TV shows. It's ridiculous. Even like I hated the acolyte, but there are things that are explored in the acolyte, and the time period of the acolyte, I want to see stuff from that time period. I don't want to see the acolyte. Like, there's a clear distinction between those two things. So it's just a shame because like it is one of my favorite franchises, but like I said, the idea of it is often better than the thing itself, which is very unfortunate.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:33

Yeah, I just disagree. I don't think that. I mean, obviously, like it there's the potential that it could be, of course, there's potential for that DC could have been better than than could have been bigger than Marvel, but uh, and still could be, I guess, with with James doing everything he's doing now.

SPEAKER_06 1:39:48

I'd also agree that DC handled correctly would be bigger than Marvel. I don't think so.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:55

You think you'd have a lot more there? Not so.

SPEAKER_08 1:39:58

Well, maybe maybe in hindsight that's a potential, but like now I think.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:02

Like going forward with Superman, Supergirl, everything.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:05

Going forward, no, I don't think it'll be as big as the MCU. No, I don't think it's as big.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:09

So you don't even think it'll it'll reach the heights that the MCU not even surpassing it. You don't even think it'll reach it.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:14

No, I don't, I think it will. I don't uh and we've talked about this before.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:17

I don't we have, yeah, we have talked about that.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:19

We have, I just think I don't remember you saying that though, and I don't remember you saying that, but I think in the 2000s, uh I mean, yeah, in my opinion, has probably changed since then, but I think in the 2000s you give DC an overhaul like Marvel, um, and you have a universe where you have DC with whoever at the helm and they make their universe, and then you have the MCU plays out the way it did, I think DC would be bigger and and better.

SPEAKER_08 1:40:47

See, I don't know. I kind of think both I I think on two sides of the same coin. On one hand, I think that Marvel now has become too iconic where I don't think DC can beat it. So, like we have Spider-Man, Iron Man, Captain America, whatever. I I don't I don't think that we're going to have you know three superheroes in the DC universe that are going to be able to go toe-to-toe with just the sheer popularity of those characters. But on the other hand, I have also said that I think the start of the DC universe under James Gunn, I don't think I said was going to be more financially successful, but I said story-wise, I think that we're going to get to similar highs that the MCU had, but I think we're going to get to them sooner.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:33

Just like pure comparison of like Superman to Iron Man, we're getting super girl, man of tomorrow, like oh, I mean, man of tomorrow already going with Brainiac and Superman and Lex teaming up to fight Brainiac.

SPEAKER_08 1:41:44

Like, yeah, so it's that's a big jump compared to. Our like phase one of stuff in the DC universe, I think is going to be like clearly better than phase one of the MCU quality-wise. Does that mean we hit the heights of Avengers one? Not necessarily. But can it be a better start to the universe overall? I think it can. Probably not financially, but just like story-wise, world building wise.

SPEAKER_06 1:42:14

And that's going to go right now. I uh if we're snaking, I would be going second, and I have mine. We can keep it. Or for snake, but I didn't, but the point is I didn't get. Yeah, well, I mean, but is that is that your fault, or is that I'm saying it's no, I'm saying it's my fault.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:32

I'm I'm acknowledging it my fault.

SPEAKER_06 1:42:34

I I think you'll have a better one. I think that's I'll just go second. Mine is still just whatever. I honestly, I mean, I could could have probably taken the DC one, but I'll contribute that. I'll use that as my contribution to the conversation. Um, mine is that I think um Captain America in the MCU is like one of the most overrated characters in the in the franchise. Like I just do not see the hype. I think he's kind of overrated. I think he's boring. I think he's boring. Um uh kind of how like Charlie's sentiment with like a B tier character. I think Captain America is a B tier character in the MCU. Captain America's on the same tier as Batman. You think he's boring? No, no, no. I like how he said that Batman's a B tier character. That sentiment, but you agree. Hey, this character BT. What do you yeah, with Batman? So you would have him on the same tier? Um, honestly, I don't like uh MCU comics, like Batman's top B tier. Probably C tier, probably C tier. Yeah, I mean, like I'd probably say that Steve Rogers is a C tier character for me. Yeah, I just I think he's a boring character.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:39

I don't really think there's a lot of committing gravitation, and not that I'm highly comparing the two, but why do you think Superman is a good character, but Captain America is a boring character?

SPEAKER_06 1:43:54

I think in terms of like categories, like I look at Captain America as a leader, right? I think there are better leaders. We've talked about this. I think there are better leaders out there, there are better characters that are leaders out there in terms of like you know, just potential, um, how characters react to situations around them, how characters react to um conflicts. I think there are better Commander Erwin is just uh the goat when it comes to that. Like he's he's listening I love that's what we were talking about.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:25

I love Ervin, but like I know we and I I push back on you on this yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:30

Just because like I I think there's different ideas of what being a leader is, and like without getting into spoilers, I think that like Erwin, the way Erwin does leadership is much incredibly different than than than how Captain America does leadership.

SPEAKER_06 1:44:46

Yeah, yeah, fair. I also think the idea of Superman just being this almighty being that could literally destroy the entire earth in a nanosecond if he wanted to, but because he loves humanity so much and because he loves the idea of humanity so much, he just doesn't, and he just wants to do good, is so much more interesting. And you could play around with so many more, so much more cool. I know I said one of those wrong, um, stories to tell with that than you could with Steve Rogers. Um and like, don't get me wrong, I love Civil War, but it's like, do I love Civil War because I love Steve Rogers, or do I love the conflict that's there with Bucky and how Bucky is is handled, not Civil War, uh Winter Soldier. Bucky's contribution to the movie because First Avenger, I think, is a boring movie. There's not a lot to chew on there. I and I it's Captain America's solo movie. Civil War is an Avengers, you know, 2.5 or 1.5, whatever, 2.5. Um, so it's like, I don't know. Is that that's why I say Steve Rogers in the MCU, Captain America is a C tier character for me. Um, not comics, not other iterations of him, but Captain America, Steve Rogers in the MCU. Uh, I there's just not a lot to chew on there, like at least the Superman sentiment. Like that I think is really cool. That I think is really fascinating. Um, but just kind of having Steve Rogers who is a good person, then takes the serum and is just an even better person, and is just like, I'm I'm just humble, nonchalant guy, you know. Like, I just I'm just I don't know. I I there's not a lot to chew on there for me. And so I've never been a big Captain America fan when it comes to the MCU. That's I just yeah, I don't I don't really care. And you point to the movies that that I that I could possibly see. I mean, his conversation with Iron Man, yes, but like I said, you know, you got all the other Avengers in Civil War, again, Iron Man and Bucky, and then you have uh Captain America Winter Soldier, where Bucky has a huge contribution to that movie. It's like I don't know. I think Steve could be a really cool and interesting character. I just don't think we get any of that in the MCU. I don't think we get a lot.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:01

Um, I'm gonna turn to a quote that I don't know who says it, but I've seen it around a lot lately, as it pertains to Captain America and Superman and what you said. Is it better to be born good or to overcome great evil and become good?

SPEAKER_06 1:47:20

Is it better to be born good or overcome great evil and become good? And become good. Now, who is that in who is that in the sense?

SPEAKER_02 1:47:27

I would argue that Superman was born good in a sense, because he's born, he hardly knows his parents, and he's sent off, he's sent away, and he's raised by Ma and Pa Kent. Of course, they have great values, and they're they're instilling those values within him. He for a large I mean I mean he was bullied. I I think uh I I haven't really read very many early Superman comics. Um, but I watched Smallville, and if that's anything to go off of, he was bullied in high school and whatnot, so I guess that's maybe an an overcoming evil and still deciding to be good sort of moment, if that's the case. Um but like in terms of Steve, like uh as we just outright see, like he's a scrawny kid and he's bullied and he's picked on all the time and uh beat up regularly, and Bucky comes to save him and he still uh chooses to do what's right, and he says he doesn't like bullies, he doesn't care where they're from. Um not that I'm shooting on Superman. I love Superman, he's my favorite DC character, he's probably my second or third favorite superhero. Um but just to play devil's advocate against your uh case here, because I also I don't fully agree with you. I don't think Steve is a boring character. And because uh I think the same similar similar reasons why I find Superman so compelling, I find Steve so compelling. But I think that Steve has overcome those those evils in his life. He didn't have like the traditional parents to like lean on and and and teach him those those good values. At least I don't I don't think so. Maybe I could be wrong. Um and so he he kind of was just he was in the mud and he he learned it himself. He learned he taught himself what it was to be a good person and uh and do those things and be a good leader and not sacrifice um or sacrifice as little as possible.

SPEAKER_06 1:49:18

I don't, but I I feel like that kind of takes away some of Superman's qualities of just like his parents, um his parents raised him the right way, and so hey, he's born good, you know. He he was born good. I feel like that kind of reduces him as a character when you're making this um uh when we're having this conversation, that kind of reduces Superman as a character. Where um I think the same could possibly go for Steve. Like, sure, he didn't have like a loving family, but we've got to say if you're saying that sorry to cut you off, but if you're if you're saying that, what were your thoughts?

SPEAKER_02 1:49:58

Uh why didn't you I don't remember you saying such a sentiment after coming out of the Superman movie. Because I I feel like largely that's what that movie is saying. Like there if he had seen the original message from his parents, like would he have turned out differently? Is that not what the movie is saying?

SPEAKER_06 1:50:21

Uh I don't think so. I mean, that's not at least what I got from it. Like, you're saying if he had seen the mess, what you're what the movie is saying is that if he had seen that message when he was a kid, he would have been like, okay, well then I have to take over Earth.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:38

Like I is that not what the movie is trying to tell you, is what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_06 1:50:43

I don't think it would have mattered. I think what the the reason for that being in there is to show that maybe Superman um. I'm trying to find a good way to put this because I know where I want to go with it, but in terms of the message, because we still see Superman overcome that regardless. We see him overcome if if he if that message is true, right? Say a universe where that message is true, and he finds proof that that message is true, which he uh assumes. Which he does in the moment. Yeah, he assumes it is. He still overcomes that. He still overcomes that that uh nature he overcomes it by just pushing that aside.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:25

Like it's like the scene in the scene that I just sent you the other day. Yeah, like at the end of the movie, when he's he's no longer looking at the images of his parents from from Krypton, he's looking at Ma and Pa kid and their and their memories together.

SPEAKER_08 1:51:37

But I think part of the reason he fights against it and overcomes it is because of the morality that he has grown by thinking that he's there for good intentions.

SPEAKER_06 1:51:48

And and and that goes to Charlie's point in terms of Ma and Pa raising him the way that they did. Yeah, that's what I yeah. I mean, yeah, I mean that that's I could see that point, yeah. Um, but what do you mean? I don't I didn't come out of the movie with that sentiment.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:02

Well, I because I don't I just don't remember you because you're saying that that reduces his character to to view him as like he's only good because of that. But I'm saying because of how he was that was a large part of a point of contention for a lot of Superman fans. I don't think I said that, I don't think I had that same company. Yeah, and I don't think I that was a large point of contention for a lot of Superman Superman fans is the fact that like that's how the movie was painting it was that he was good because of what his parents taught him growing up here, and if he had seen that message, then he would not have been that good.

SPEAKER_06 1:52:34

Oh, interesting. No, I I think I always kind of interpreted that as if that even if he had seen that message. Um I mean, I don't know. Yeah, I uh now that I'm I mean, maybe I could be I could be misremembering.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:47

I've it's been a while since I've seen the movie, of course, but um I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 1:52:51

Maybe I just didn't even consider that, leaving the oh, he's only good because he didn't see that message when he was younger, and now that he's seen it.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:59

I mean, it is something that they tackle in the movie. I think that's a conversation he has with Paw Kent. Uh-huh. Like, I think Paw Kent tells him, like, I don't remember exactly what they said in the conversation. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:53:09

He says something something about like what makes you a good man isn't damn like what your parents left you with, or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:17

It's just what's what's about you, or something about something like that.

SPEAKER_06 1:53:20

You aren't your parents or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:23

Yeah. Um, so probably something like that. So I could be wrong. I could be off base.

SPEAKER_06 1:53:27

Well, then in I mean, if that is what the movie's trying to say, if it is, if the movie is trying to say, yeah, I had Superman seen that as a kid and just went to Earth and just like completely obliterated it, I do think that does reduce his character a little bit. Because I like to believe that Superman, um I like to believe that Superman wouldn't put his powers to use like that. He wouldn't see that message and then go annihilate Earth and completely kill it and like destroy or take humanity as his slaves. I don't want to believe that Superman has the cape cape, like I don't want to think that Clark Kent sitting there thinks in his head, damn, I could do this. I think that idea never crosses his mind once. And I agree.

SPEAKER_02 1:54:14

I and I I want to say I want to say I largely agree with that, but to continue playing devil's advocate, and not and we're kind of getting into a different conversation here, but just last thing I'll say about it is like I think that from a nihilistic standpoint, from a from a just trying to be uh an annoying fan, one could argue, I think, that the movie almost still perceives it that way, with just putting putting the idea of how much Clark loves his his earth or his Krypton parents and just how much he idealizes them and and and and plasters them everywhere in the fortresses fortress of solitude and that kind of thing. So like if if that's how much he misses them and and loves them and wishes that he never wishes that he got to experience that life with them, like why would he not look at those videos and be like, and this is how I honor them is doing what they tell me to do, you know? Yeah, but but that's yeah, I mean, that's neither here nor there. I like again, that's just me being an annoying fan.

SPEAKER_06 1:55:17

And to bring it back home, like I think part of the reason why I gravitate more with um Superman in in in regards to Steve Rogers, is just what I said is that Steve has the or Clark has the ability of holding humanity hostage, destroying the entire earth, yet nothing will ever shake him down to his core to make him do that or even consider doing that. Whereas Steve Rogers is you know good old boy, and and that's that's like kind of the extent that we like we see sacrifice, we see that uh he's never selfish, or he, you know, we don't trade lives. That just doesn't do a ton for me, you know. Whenever it like just man, what a great guy. Like, I don't know, we don't really see it be put. We I don't think we see that because what my mind immediately goes to is that Luffy has no character development, right? Luffy is the same Luffy throughout the entire the entirety of One Piece. Doesn't that he's just hey, I'm good, I liberate people, and I I go through this, but we see that challenged every single arc. We see somebody put that to the challenge for him or put that to the test, um, and and tear him down to his very tear him down to his bones and push him to his limits. We get to see that and we get to see that inner character of Luffy and who Luffy is expressed in those moments, and we don't get to see that with Captain America as much as I would like to, given that he is you know side by side there with Iron Man. Um, and so whenever we do see little bits of it, it just it doesn't hit like I feel like it should. Like I feel like we needed more of it, and because we didn't get a lot of it, he is just a boring character to me. I just don't agree with that personally. That's fine. I knew you wouldn't. I know you you're a big Steve Rogers guy, but I just yeah, it's never he's never he's never hit for me. I've never been over the moon about him as a character.

SPEAKER_02 1:57:24

I mean, I think that largely a lot of his a lot of his uh more compelling character beats come in like civil war. Um he's straight up just like pushing against every institution that he has come to trust in his new 21st century uh life. Um the event the Avengers, um the new government that he doesn't really work for. The Avengers don't work for the government, but that's what Tony's trying to do.

SPEAKER_06 1:57:56

I don't mean to cut you off, but team cap in Civil War, Captain America's fucking reasons are horrible. Like you hid from Iron Man that Bucky killed your parents, no, and like you're justifying.

SPEAKER_02 1:58:09

You're well, you're talking about like the you're talking about the bucky of it all, like the the actual Sokovia chords part of it.

SPEAKER_06 1:58:15

I don't know, not the not okay. The Sokovia chords where yeah, where they need to check in with with folks the government, no, the Bucky of it all. That was a that's a fucked up move, and so I'm like, I've I've always watched Civil War and been like, yeah, I get your ride or die for your homie, but like this is not a good look, man. And it's this whole like, are you like uh uh something that Captain America is selfless, right? Captain America will never trade lives with people, buddy. You just traded Iron Man's fucking parents' lives because Bucky's just made this face turn and you never informed Iron Man of any of this. Like, I'm supposed to think that I'm supposed to take your side and then you get your dance with Peggy, your first selfish act. Like, buddy, you had a selfish act in Civil War. What are we talking about? Like it you put Bucky's lives and livelihood over your buddy there, uh Tony Stark. I mean, I don't know, but like I've always watched Civil War and had that sentiment.

SPEAKER_02 1:59:11

The only thing that I would say though is like is it is it really hurting Tony? Because like Tony knows his parents are dead, and in Steve's mind, and truthfully, it's the truth, it was not Bucky that did that, like it was it was it was Hydra that did it, like they made Bucky do it against Bucky's will. I mean fair, yeah, but I just uh like I see what you're saying, absolutely, and not like if me as Captain America, do I tell sure? And like I'm trying to think, do I tell Tony like in that scenario? Because you gotta think he also knows how Tony's gonna react, telling him. So like you could probably put Bucky somewhere and make sure Bucky's safe, far away, and then tell him, let him know. But then is Tony just gonna go out of his way to like hunt him down and and and and kill him in a separate place far away from Steve, where Steve can't do anything to stop him? You know?

SPEAKER_06 2:00:11

I've just always every time I've watched that movie, I fucking I want to smack the fucking smug look on Captain America's dumbass face when he has look when he has Tony like pressed up and he's just like, nah, man, like or I I forget what happens, but I know that there's a moment in that fight with him and Iron Man that I'm just like, God, I could smack the goofy off of you right now. I hated Cap, bro. I he pissed me off. So I don't know. I just I'm not the biggest fan. And then I yeah, when I really think about it and look into them, I'm like, man, like Winter Soldier's great, one of my favorite Marvel movies, one of my favorite superhero movies ever. Is it great because Captain America's awesome in it, or is it great because like Bucky actually gets to challenge Captain America's character and whatnot? Again, something that we don't get to see a lot at all in the MCU, which is just like it just doesn't do it for me. You can have like a like a Batman, you can have a character that does not ever progress. It's just again, I hate to keep calling back to it, but it is Luffy. This is how Luffy is. Luffy goes through no development in the entire show, but you get to see that character pushed, you get to see that character shine in amazing moments. And I don't get to see a lot of that with Captain America. Superman's first movie, I got to see it so many times, and it hit to the point where I was like tearing up. Captain America, that shit, I have never felt anything watching uh except for him picking up Thor's hammer, and then obviously, you know, his send off some of those moments. Other than that, in just a regular movie, it's just like cool, Captain America's being selfless, cool. Captain America's being, you know, good old boy. I need something more, I need him to be pushed to his limits. I need to see that in action where he could destroy the entire world, but he doesn't because he knows that he wasn't raised that way. Something like that, I need to see more of it, and I just don't get so. Anyways, that's my take. We've spent we've spent a lot of time on my take, so I apologize. Sure, sure, sure.

SPEAKER_02 2:02:10

Um, I mean, yeah, my my uh last one is just uh I think Star Wars is a mid-franchise. I think uh well aside from Andor and video games.

SPEAKER_08 2:02:24

You mean like the quality of content or like the world? Oh no, I think he means the world itself. At least that's what like the world, the planets force, dark side, lightside, Sith, probably.

SPEAKER_02 2:02:39

The qual the quality, the quality of the movie. Okay, the quality of the movie. That's a very it's a very yeah, that's that's an important distinction. I have a lightsaber, so yeah, that's an important distinction.

SPEAKER_08 2:02:47

I probably will this fall.

SPEAKER_02 2:02:51

Like uh like a Disney one, yes. Oh, mine's not anybody. Mine's a $600 lightsaber custom built. Okay, so okay.

SPEAKER_08 2:02:59

Did you get it in Galaxy's Edge and then go drink in the cantina after going on Smuggler's Run and riding in the Falcon with Chewbacca and did you drive? Did you do that? I'm about to.

SPEAKER_02 2:03:10

I'm gonna I could if I wanted to, I could do that before you.

SPEAKER_08 2:03:12

And it's probably not gonna cost six hundred dollars.

SPEAKER_02 2:03:16

Uh well, after having a drink and everything like that, getting into the park and whatnot.

SPEAKER_08 2:03:20

Yeah, I mean that's that's actually fair.

SPEAKER_02 2:03:23

Um but uh yeah, I think that it's a it's a franchise that, as I mentioned before, it never takes a step to go even remotely deeper. Like it's just it's built for entertainment. I think like I think of the Martin Scorsese roller coaster stuff so far, like that even the original trilogy, like you're never building anything that's all that deep, deep or uh thought-provoking. Uh, it's just like a very by the numbers sort of it's an enjoyable experience. I do like the original trilogy. Uh, of course, I wish it was like uh more modern because like seeing the like lightsabers and whatnot like that don't look as great as they as they do now. Not that the the fights back then I honestly kind of look better, which is crazy to say. But uh um yeah, I just think that the franchise has never taken a step to uh I don't want to say like legitimize itself, uh, because I I I think that's like a an unfair wording, but just it it doesn't do anything of interest with uh not even just character writing, but just plot writing uh other than just maybe some grassroots like uh topics of of of of uh tyrannical governments and and and stuff like that, uh which you see in stuff like Hunger Games and and and everything. It's nothing unique there. Not that Hunger Games was around before Star Wars, but it's not it's not a unique idea, is what I mean to say. So like I agree with what you said, Ben, is like this has the potential to be really big. I still don't think bigger than Marvel. Uh it has the potential to be really big, and we've seen the potential of it. Maybe not being big, because I don't know how big Andor was necessarily, like view uh watch number wise, uh, but just the quality of storytelling in Andor, both character and and plot progression-wise, uh uh just store just overall story is just so damn good. And like that is a story on a tyrannical government. It's the same tyrannical government from the that's in riddle throughout the rest of the franchise, but this one is just it's handled with so much more love and care and uh just true grit and and and and and the true depression of it all. Like it's just like all of that is there, all of the beats are there, and no other points in the franchise do they even remotely take a moment to even consider something like that. Like the the most we got in this most recent movie was Mando saying, I don't work for the Huts, I don't work with the Huts. All right, bro. Like can you want to tell me why, man? Do you stand for anything? Like, what the fuck are you talking about, bro? Um just uh I don't know, man. Uh and obviously, uh I know we're only talking about movies here because I also do want to highlight like the games are also different. The Calcastus games specifically, like they dive into his character and and his life and everything. And I think that they handle those with a lot more depth than anything that the movies do as well. Uh, I can't speak to many other Star Wars games. I played the Force Unleashed games, but that was a long time ago. But yeah, man, I just think that I mean, this isn't nothing any anything new for me. You guys know I've never been the biggest Star Wars guy. Uh, and I I don't know if that's that's that's part of it. It's just that because you guys know I'm a big character guy, and I think that these movies just don't really have that uh in in abundance.

SPEAKER_08 2:07:12

So yeah, I as much as I love Star Wars, I I pretty much agree with you because like for somebody who's such a big fan of the universe, I feel like we deserve for this franchise to be better than it is, and for us to get more movies, better movies, whatever it may be. I I think it's a real disservice that we haven't gotten that. And I mean, just even watching some of the Star Wars movies recently, they really are just like movies that just tell a story. Like it opens with a text crawl and then it just throws you into a story and it just goes beat for beat, and there's you know, it's really just watching a journey, and it doesn't look like an attempt to try and make it more compelling than like what it is at face value, and I like I agree with that entirely, and it's very unfortunate because I like thinking now with like the Dune movies, it's like star if we had the right people dealing with Star Wars, we would get that kind of quality. But in a universe that I I I like the Star Wars universe way more than the Dune universe, I think almost everybody would say that. And like an Anakin Skywalker could have been treated like a Paul Atreides, and you know, no offense to George Lucas, but like and no offense to Hayden Christensen because I you know I think he was overly hated, but I think if we were starting fresh from Star Wars Episode 1, treating it like Dune 1, and if we just started fresh with this story with the right people making the movies, I think we'd be looking at like an incredible series of movies, and instead we just have a it's such a mess not even mentioning like the fact that we had the original trilogy back in like the 70s and 80s, and then we do the prequels and then we do the sequels, and I get it, like that's how they decided to tell the story sequentially, but like just from a consistency standpoint, from a movie-making standpoint, it's they're just vastly different, like they they don't feel like they're connected trilogies. I mean, they're they're their own pockets of trilogies, but really it's supposed to be one overarching story, and it just doesn't feel like that at all. So I agree with you, and specifically I agree with you as a as a hardcore fan of the franchise who is upset and feels like we all deserve for it to be better than it is.

SPEAKER_06 2:09:53

I I would have pushed back a little bit if you said that uh it wasn't just like the Star Wars as a franchise world universe is is made. I would have pushed back a lot of it.

SPEAKER_08 2:10:04

Because that's I mean that might be the best fictional universe.

SPEAKER_06 2:10:08

It might be actually the the world of invincible.

SPEAKER_02 2:10:15

I think I think I think both DC and Marvel are are are better than than Star Wars.

SPEAKER_08 2:10:20

See, but that that is mostly just Earth with heroes. That is not like the Green Lantern Hero conversation.

SPEAKER_10 2:10:28

The Green Lantern Corps are an entire, like they're space cops that go throughout the entire game.

SPEAKER_08 2:10:34

I I guess I guess, yeah, that's the question of which species are you in this given I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 2:10:41

Are we pretending like we're placed in the universe? I was just saying the universe, like encompassing everything, because like there's like the the guardians in in uh in Marvel as well as uh the Fantastic Four, which are Earth heroes, yes, but they also go across the galaxy universe, etc.

SPEAKER_08 2:10:59

Well, it's just like if you're if you're just like a standard NPC in the Star Wars universe, you're likely that you can go and fly a spaceship across the galaxy. That's not a hard thing to do, as just like a a normal dude in Star Wars. If you're just a normal person in the Marvel universe, you're gonna get you could get powers at some point, you could get powers, or you could just die. Like I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 2:11:27

Because that I think that's the trade-off. Like in a in a Star Wars universe. If you're not like force sensitive, like what are your options then? Like you can be a bounty, you can become a bounty hunter, bro.

SPEAKER_08 2:11:37

Fly across the galaxy, jerk off on a bunch of planets. Like I you don't have you don't have to be involved in this whole you know, rebels and empire. I'm just I'm just saying you could drunk drive an X Wing. Like, that's an option that you could do. Get some death sticks and get a little, you know.

SPEAKER_06 2:12:00

Alright, now you're convincing me. That's what I said, like an NPC in the invincible universe would be amazing.

SPEAKER_08 2:12:07

To me, DC and Marvel, like I just He just moved on. I just think you're just like you're just human and there are people with superpowers. Because then if you ask me, would I rather be if the question is would I rather be a Jedi or a superhero? It depends on the superhero. If it's the right superhero, I'm probably picking superhero. But in general, if I like don't get to pick which superhero I am, I'm probably picking Jedi.

SPEAKER_02 2:12:38

So you you would take Jedi being a Jedi over being a random superhero. Yes, if it's a complete random, yes.

SPEAKER_06 2:12:46

Oh, I think I would too.

SPEAKER_08 2:12:49

Yeah. Now if I get to pick, we are all picking to be Spider-Man.

SPEAKER_02 2:12:54

If we if you can choose like that, we know regularly once a week get like depressed that I can't be Spider-Man. Not actually depressed, but I get a little bit sad.

SPEAKER_08 2:13:03

I'm like every Wednesday I wake up rock hard.

SPEAKER_03 2:13:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 2:13:10

Fair. So I don't know. I but for from like a universe and lore perspective, like Star Wars, there's so much to it. And I feel like no matter which like planet you're on in the galaxy, there's so many things happening. There's so much variety. If you're just a human on Earth in the MCU or in the DC universe, it it's the same, or it's more dangerous than our Earth is right now.

SPEAKER_09 2:13:40

Okay, ain't nothing like that, bro.

SPEAKER_02 2:13:42

All you gotta do is find a spider to bite you, bro. All you gotta do is rub some radioactive fluid in your eye. All you gotta do is uh drink the Hulk's blood.

SPEAKER_10 2:13:53

All you gotta do is hey yo uh maybe not drink it, but rub it on a cut that you have. I don't know, bruh.

SPEAKER_08 2:14:03

Yeah, and when I when I think of like fictional universes, uh MCU doesn't even really like that doesn't really come to mind. I think of more a Star Wars Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, that kind of thing. Because those those are like truly fictional worlds. I mean I guess there is the equivalent of that in Marvel, but a lot of the time I wouldn't say Harry Potter's truly fictional, it's like basically hidden.

SPEAKER_02 2:14:35

Harry Potter is a bit like is basically a fucking hidden world. There's like the real world and then there's hidden world.

SPEAKER_08 2:14:41

So it's like wakanda.

SPEAKER_09 2:14:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 2:14:44

Wakanda for for kids. Yeah. Wakanda for kids that are uh not of one ethnicity.

SPEAKER_09 2:14:59

Oh no, because they have mud bloods and stuff there too.

SPEAKER_10 2:15:03

So they're muddled.

SPEAKER_08 2:15:04

Yeah, they're racist. Yeah. Racist. Not a bad take, though, Charlie. Not a bad take. And it's an it's upsetting, but it it is agreeable. So uh yeah, I would agree with that too.

SPEAKER_06 2:15:18

I didn't have a lot of insight, but yeah, I'd agree. No, I have not. What are you talking about?

SPEAKER_09 2:15:28

Yes, you did, bro. Yes, you did.

SPEAKER_06 2:15:32

Oh, yeah, I guess I did. Well, like, I mean, look, okay, to be fair, to be fair, Star Wars is a mid-franchise. Who has not complained about fucking Star Wars? Like, since like for sure, but I would recent years. Like, of course, we've all talked about it on this podcast.

SPEAKER_02 2:15:50

But I'm not saying recent years, I'm saying it's always is and always has been.

SPEAKER_06 2:15:53

Like, I don't think like even the original trilogy, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:15:55

That's what I said while you were.

SPEAKER_06 2:15:56

Yeah, that's that's okay. That's where, yeah, no, that's fucking stupid. I think the original the original trilogy is great.

SPEAKER_02 2:16:01

I'd push back there, but I mean still it's from a writing perspective though, from like a like character writing perspective, you think the original trilogy is really like fucking pushing the bounds of of of deep thought and and and and and I don't know what's going on.

SPEAKER_06 2:16:17

I'm not saying the I don't think that doesn't mean that doesn't that doesn't necessarily mean that I think the movies are mid. If it's if it's not doing that, I'm not gonna sit there and say, well, it has to do that for me, or else I mean we we like the boys finale. What are you talking about? Why why is nobody draw the line there for the story?

SPEAKER_02 2:16:35

I said well while while you were gone, I said that they're they're pretty much just for entertainment purposes. And I I even said like the Martin Scorsese roller coaster theme park thing. I think that is Star Wars through and through, and it always has been. I don't other than Andor, other than Andor and some video games. I think that has always been Star Wars.

SPEAKER_06 2:16:54

I don't know. I just think that's such a weird take, because I mean that's I feel like that's a lot of superhero movies. Now you have some that are like the Andors. Cool, like you're gonna have some that hit there, but it's like you're talking about nine movies, but I'm saying Star Wars has never had anything.

SPEAKER_02 2:17:11

Maybe the Clone Wars, I haven't seen the Clone Wars show, but Star Wars has never had anything like that until Andor. The last season was a franchise that's been around since the 70s.

SPEAKER_06 2:17:23

Rebels also, Rebels is really good too, and has a lot more to say than just entertainment for entertainment's sake. Um, the last season of the Clone Wars is phenomenal, touches a lot on that. Andor, obviously, and then I think the original trilogy is is good because that was kind of the launching point. That is kind of like saying you're not do you're not doing anything groundbreaking with Iron Man or like the first Avengers movie, but it's not like saying Austin, it's one movie versus three scene. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 2:17:52

Avengers, iron like some of the starting movies in the MCU have more characters than than than the first three Star Wars movies. That's dumb.

SPEAKER_06 2:18:02

That's dumb. Okay, no, that's dumb. Yeah, I don't agree there. I don't agree at all. Like I think the original, I think the original three Star Wars movies have a lot more to say than just entertainment for entertainment's sake, on top of the other the other uh mediums I mentioned, the TV shows and whatnot that I mentioned, uh Rogue One, Rogue One as well. Like, you're gonna have some hits in there. There is just such a vast uh animated shows, the MCU, movies, uh Marvel TV shows. There is so much of that out there that you focus on what the what the great ones are, right? What what ones are telling a good story, and then the other ones that are obviously just there for entertainment. Okay, well, like why are you looking at Star Wars and being like Star Wars has always been like that? No, they've had their hits, yes. That's one through three.

SPEAKER_02 2:18:53

Fine, but if we cut out the TV shows, not even talking about Andor. You've said the franchise, you said you said the franchise. I know I'm saying cut that and now I'm saying cut that shit out. The the the entire franchise has just been for entertainment purposes. If you if you cannot point to any TV shows, that is the that is the entire franchise of Star Wars, nothing but entertainment purposes. There's there's no there's no deep and compelling uh there's no deep and compelling thought for character writing, for uh compelling fucking narrative as somebody who has not watched the Clone Wars or Rebels, for you to sit there and say that. No, well I just said cut out the TV show. I just said cut out the TV show. Okay, okay, then roll the tape back.

SPEAKER_06 2:19:33

Cut out the TV shows for Marvel. Like if we're just doing movies, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:19:38

If we're doing movies to movies, Marvel is better. Marvel has Marvel. What do you mean? Marvel has way more opportunities where they have been on topic movies, compelling character early compelling character writing, um, more more thought-provoking writing.

SPEAKER_04 2:19:52

Like yeah, you have three times.

SPEAKER_02 2:19:53

What's the most thought-provoking shit in Star Wars? I'm your fucking dad. Oh fuck, bro. Three times. Holy shit.

SPEAKER_06 2:20:00

You have three times more of the fucking movies. That's what I'm saying. There's a vast majority of projects to pick from when it comes to Marvel movies, even the X-Men, the Fox movies, whatever. You have so much you could pick from in terms of stories they tell or characters. You have nine movies because you want to cut out TV shows. You have nine Star Wars movies, three that were made breaking the ground in terms of just spectacles on the screen that I also think are good. They're not amazing character-wise. We're not getting fucking um what's the fucking uh past lives type fucking writing in there? Where, like, yes, they are blockbuster movies, but so are the Marvel movies, and you have three times more to pick from there. Now you include the TV shows. My point still stands. You have a lot more to pick from there. You're not gonna talk about the duds, you're not gonna talk about Agatha all along as soon as you start talking about Marvel projects, you're gonna talk about all the good ones. So it's like, does that make Marvel a mid-franchise? Like, I you you take the the one. I've never shied away.

SPEAKER_02 2:21:00

I've not shied away from Marvel, Marvel's Duds.

SPEAKER_06 2:21:03

Is Marvel a mid-franchise? It's Marvel a mid-franchise.

SPEAKER_02 2:21:05

Let's compare apples to apples to the first the first nine, the first nine projects of the of the first nine movies of the MCU versus the the nine movies in Star Wars. Like, what the fuck we talking about?

SPEAKER_06 2:21:15

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm asking you, is Marvel a mid-franchise?

SPEAKER_11 2:21:22

No.

SPEAKER_06 2:21:23

Okay. Like you take Star Wars's project, you times it by three, you get the MCU. It's just the law of large numbers. And so for you to look at Star Wars.

SPEAKER_02 2:21:35

What are you talking about? So if we're just talking about movies, all you have to hinge on are the original three. Do you understand that? Like, even if even if I were to grant you that, you you only have the original three movies of so a franchise that's been going for the past 50 fucking years. You have the you have the original three fucking movies, and that's what you're doing.

SPEAKER_06 2:21:54

And rogue one, and rogue one, because okay, rogue, yeah, rogue one too.

SPEAKER_02 2:21:58

I'll give you that.

SPEAKER_06 2:21:59

Because that's all they have. Like, what is your argument?

SPEAKER_02 2:22:01

So they they finally made another fucking compelling one after fucking 40 years. Yep, yippee fucking hey, bro. What are you talking about?

SPEAKER_06 2:22:10

You have you have four Star Wars movies that are good and I think are not just it like put out there for entertainment sake, you have four of them out of 10. So you're saying that you have over 12 that are actual good, thought-provoking, what you're looking for in terms of movies for Marvel? Like, do you have 12 or or less? That's what I'm trying to say. You can take the one to a few.

SPEAKER_02 2:22:34

Wait, where'd you get 12 from?

SPEAKER_06 2:22:36

Because if I'm saying that there are four great Star Wars movies out of 10, you times that by three, which is what Marvel has, 30 movies out there, then you're gonna have four bangers in there. That's what you are calling a mid-franchise. You're picking from that sample size.

SPEAKER_02 2:22:49

So I need 12 Marvel movies, but Charlie wouldn't say that there's four great Star Wars movies.

SPEAKER_06 2:22:57

And that's why I'd say it's a bad take. That's why I don't agree with it. Because I would say that there are four great Star Wars movies on top of a lot of good TV shows that have more to say than just being entertainment. So for him to say that Star Wars is a mid-franch because of that, I don't agree. Like, that's why I think it's a hot take. And I don't like I don't think anybody else would agree with it. So, no, I don't agree with that. Um, Star Wars could have been bigger than the MCU. I mean, yeah, I I agree because we've talked about how good the franchise is, me and Ben at least. Marvel should have never made TV shows. Ben brought that up a long time ago. We've we agreed.

SPEAKER_08 2:23:32

So I would even change mine to Star Wars should have been a bigger franchise than the MCU. I would trade the MCU and its success for Star Wars being the biggest movie franchise. I'd trade that in a heartbeat for me, because I like the universe part.

SPEAKER_06 2:23:49

But I think there's more that I would I would like in Marvel, so I wouldn't trade that. Just superhero stories and characters.

SPEAKER_08 2:23:56

Well, I wouldn't trade it, but you don't get anything from Marvel. It's that Star Wars is the big boss, super successful franchise, and Marvel is not. But yeah. Anyways, um, that's going to be it for our hot takes. Next week, we will have more exciting discussion. Aiden will hopefully finish Spider Noir. And then we also have the release of Disclosure Day and kind of a low-key movie that I don't know if it's on your guys' radar, but I would recommend you guys check it out. It's called The Furious. It is a uh new action movie, I believe it's an Indonesian action movie, but a lot of the a lot of the people who worked on it are the people who worked on like the raid movies, which are highly regarded as some of the best, just like pure action movies of all time. They're usually pretty light on story, but it's like the coolest action you're ever gonna see. The trailer is insane, even if you just check that out, and if that convinces you, you'll be sold. It's just a pure action, high octane movie. I'm super excited for it. It's getting raving early reviews. People saying it's one of the best action movies since the second raid film. Uh, so I'm very excited for that. That also comes out this weekend. But, anyways, that's my pit, my pitch to you guys. If that wasn't on your radar at all and you're interested in checking out a nice little action movie. But of course, we have that disclosure day. We're gonna have more box office updates, seeing where everything is falling, Masters of the Universe, Disclosure Day, Backrooms, Mando, all of those things are very important. We'll be talking about that next week, as well as getting Rotten Tomato scores for disclosure day to see if I can continue my so far very successful streak for that draft this year. Uh, make sure to leave a comment down below if you want Aiden to read it out next week. Otherwise, this has been the Words from the Nerds Podcast, and we will see you all next time. Sayanara.

SPEAKER_09 2:25:57

Yes. Uh